Let's talk ENGINE SWAPS

[mech]

ok so heres the situation. Got a 77 1st gen celica. In 4 months im going back to the states (junkyard heaven) to pack up my tools and ship them.

Now, here in Greece, they will not let you pull parts from junkyards . I'm shipping my tools in a container, and i will have extra room. So i can shove whatever in there with the extra space.

So i need to make a list of whatever parts i will need to make my project possible.

My Goal: 400 Rear Wheel Horspower. Whatever engine tranny combination from another toyota to get me there.

Will a stock EFI manifold ( of course with fuel upgrades etc) flow enough air to get me there? Or do i need to go to a custom manifold? Stock turbo thats upgradeable with a stock exh manifold, or an aftermarket Turbo with equal length tubular headers?

Also, what suspension upgrades? I thought i had read, that you need the struts on a AE86 in order to upgrade the brakes on celica?

also , whatever else im going to need. I need to make sure im getting the right stuff, and not forgetting something.

[big_zop]

What engine are you likely to use and what are the rules like over there (am i right in saying that you are going to pack your car/tools into a container, ship it with you to the states and do the conversion there with the chance of returning to greece, or jsut using the spare space in the container to bring back the parts you need to do the conversion in greece)?

If this is the GT that you have then you are going to get a lot of people saying to leave it stock, or at the bare minimum to have all the mods reversable. Hell, you would probably find someone here to buy it from you and you can get something that the purist wont scream at you if you molest it.

Having said that, your best bet would be a 1JZ for an easily attainable 300+hp on stock turbos and more with a big single swap - and will probably be the cheapest solution and been done before - seach in the members rides threads. A 2JZ should theoretically be able to be done if a 1JZ can fit but i havent seen one and im not sure on bonnet clearance (since its a taller motor) - if possible it will obviously give you the most power potential. On these, the stock intake manifold will be ok for the power you want. There are a few threads that go through the power acheivable on stock turbos (more on 1JZ than 2JZ) so have a look there to find out what you need.

Other options include 1UZ which will require forced induction to reach your power or 3SGTE which will require a lot more work to turn north-south and im not sure if that power is easily attainable.

There may also be options in the states that arent even available here, not too mention the more modern engines which most of us here havent had much exposure to. Research and research some more (not only here either) and then come back with some options/questions.

[Smokey228]

I think man, to get a solid 400rwhp, the cheapest option will be the 1JZ...

I have 240rwkw with a standard 1jz in my RA23 celica, and i run a Apexi PowerFC... With a single, i should see 400-450rwhp... My later intentions...

Have a look in my members thread, toy77, stidnam, sheepers and 77GZE thread's... We have all got 1st gen 1JZ celicas...

Suspension wise you want corona struts with hilux calipers and peugot rotors. For diff you want a hilux diff. 1j engine, custom tailshaft and big enough fuel system....

Cheers,
Jase

[mech]

What engine are you likely to use and what are the rules like over there (am i right in saying that you are going to pack your car/tools into a container, ship it with you to the states and do the conversion there with the chance of returning to greece, or jsut using the spare space in the container to bring back the parts you need to do the conversion in greece)?

If this is the GT that you have then you are going to get a lot of people saying to leave it stock, or at the bare minimum to have all the mods reversable. Hell, you would probably find someone here to buy it from you and you can get something that the purist wont scream at you if you molest it.

Having said that, your best bet would be a 1JZ for an easily attainable 300+hp on stock turbos and more with a big single swap - and will probably be the cheapest solution and been done before - seach in the members rides threads. A 2JZ should theoretically be able to be done if a 1JZ can fit but i havent seen one and im not sure on bonnet clearance (since its a taller motor) - if possible it will obviously give you the most power potential. On these, the stock intake manifold will be ok for the power you want. There are a few threads that go through the power acheivable on stock turbos (more on 1JZ than 2JZ) so have a look there to find out what you need.

Other options include 1UZ which will require forced induction to reach your power or 3SGTE which will require a lot more work to turn north-south and im not sure if that power is easily attainable.

There may also be options in the states that arent even available here, not too mention the more modern engines which most of us here havent had much exposure to. Research and research some more (not only here either) and then come back with some options/questions.

The 77 is going to be scrapped at some point. Its rusted to hell, and can never be registered for the road again. I just dont have a choice in the matter, and i knew that when i saved it from being crushed, for the time being.

The idea was to get the parts in the states, and ship em over here.

i will look into your suggestions, thanks

[mech]

I think man, to get a solid 400rwhp, the cheapest option will be the 1JZ...

I have 240rwkw with a standard 1jz in my RA23 celica, and i run a Apexi PowerFC... With a single, i should see 400-450rwhp... My later intentions...

Have a look in my members thread, toy77, stidnam, sheepers and 77GZE thread's... We have all got 1st gen 1JZ celicas...

Suspension wise you want corona struts with hilux calipers and peugot rotors. For diff you want a hilux diff. 1j engine, custom tailshaft and big enough fuel system....

Cheers,
Jase

ok, i will look into the threads.

The hilux had a LSD diff? or has power to both wheels? Or is able to handle the power? I'm assuming all 1st gen celicas were one leggers.

[mech]

So, im certain theres no way to obtain 400rwhp with a 1.6l engine. Just not enough displacement to work with. and wont produce enough torque. right....

Has anyone bored out the 1.6 to a 1.8? or bigger?

and im assuming the stock trans, drive shaft and diff in the 1st gen celica couldnt handle that much power.

Plus the clutch, PP, and flywheel diameter is too small, right? I have no idea though because i have never had one apart. I havent even had the car in the air yet to have a look underneath.

sorry for all the Noob questions guys. I know this site is packed with info, and i have alot of reading to do. and i usually research before posting a thread like this, but i thought this might help me get started

[The Real Roadrunner]

So, im certain theres no way to obtain 400rwhp with a 1.6l engine. Just not enough displacement to work with. and wont produce enough torque. right....

you would be suprised.

300kw 4age's have been done and the crazie's over in PR have 3Tc's (1.8l) running 7sec 1/4mile times. all depends on how much money you want to spend to make it quick.

first thing you need to figure out is a budget and then ppl will be able to give better advice based on that budget.

Cheers
Linden

[mech]

hmm. Well, lets say 15,000 Euros is my budget over the course of 3 years. 15,000 Euros with the current dollar exchange rate = 22,000 dollars.

plus if i used the 1.6 2T-G, i would have to use different pistons to lower the compression ratio, or keep the boost really low, right?

What about the 3T-GTEU? http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/4883/2tg-info.html

[mech]

you would be suprised.

300kw 4age's have been done and the crazie's over in PR have 3Tc's (1.8l) running 7sec 1/4mile times. all depends on how much money you want to spend to make it quick.

Ok, so 300KW = 400 HP. is that to the rear wheels?

what does 4age's mean? Wheres PR? 3Tc's?

[mech]

if i did stick with the 2T-G.......this is what im talking about right here.


http://www.toyotacelicas.com/forums/...howtopic=18013

[mech]

[Smokey228]

I dont think you'll get a 2tg making 400hp with a strong engouh drive line for your budget...

The stock diff will explode as soon as you put any power into it. The gearbox will leap out at warp speed never to be found again and your wallet will be far to light to start over...

Hilux diff is a very strong diff, you wont kill it without a lot of abuse... They have LSDs, air lockers, plenty of aftermarket support as they are a 4wd diff...

The stock gearbox is good for not much more then maybe 250-300hp, but you'll have to baby that sucker around!

If you do the fab work yourself, you'll get it done for under 10k dollars i'd say, including the purchase of parts... But depends how much you have to pay for...

Cheers,
Jase

[The Real Roadrunner]

my hood arrived few days back surprised .
compared to the OEM hood, this Cf hood weights like a paper. i feel the difference in speed and reaction by reducing some pounds off of her. very expensive but very worth getting

I lol'd when i saw that, but the bonnet is horn.

3Tc is the 1.8l single cam motor that the puerto rican guys seem to love, basically the same as a 2TG but a single cam version with more cc's.

2TG head is rumoured to be better than the 3TGTE but by how much im not sure, having a 1.8l bottom end would help with streetability though.

4AGE is the engine alot of Celica and Sprinter (ae86) guys over here run, basically a later version of the 2TG.

search through the members rides section and you will find a couple of 1.6-1.8L motors making 300rwkw (400 wheel hp)

a 2T/3T hybrid with a W58 and an Fseries diff would hold the power required provided your not abusing the crap out of it.

would $22K cover it all being done properly? only if you did 95% of the work yourself.

a decent ECU + wiring + tuning = about $4K if you pay somebody else to do it properly (not halfarsed)
Engine build = $5K+ depending on how nuts you want to go
Fuel system = $1200 for something decent
Tailshaft = $500-800 depending on what you want (no point getting a shit shaft made if its just going to tear a hole through your floor)
Diff with a disc brake setup = roughly $2K depending on what you can do yourself
Turbo = more $$$
Intercooler + piping = more $$$
Exhaust = more $$$
Inlet manifold = more $$$
Turbo manifold = more $$$
Etc
Etc
Etc

im yet to see a reliable 400hp car built for $10K, heck i doubt i could even build it for that if i didn't charge labour on it. anybody that say's it can be done either hasn't tried or never added up their reciepts.

Cheers
Linden

[oldcorollas]

do you want a laggy 400hp that almost never makes it onto boost? ie, 1.6l with 30+psi of boost

or do you want a car that is not laggy and has 400hp on tap? ie 2J or 1UZ with a lot less boost..

[The Real Roadrunner]

laggy 1.6 would still be good on fuel around town

2jz or 1uz would be dificult to squeeze in and make the car front heavy also, whats the purpose of the vehicle?

if he's moving from the states then he would only need 300rwhp (aussie) as their dyno's generally read way higher than ours, a 300whp 2/3TG wouldn't be a bad thing,

check TIMTAMS members ride thread, his car goes extremely well for what it is.