Let's talk ENGINE SWAPS

[Smokey228]

I assume that purchase of parts would be alot cheaper for him, then they would be for us... So i parts that would cost us 10k here, would prolly cost him 5-6k there...

Cheers,
Jase

[mech]

scrap the celica. i want this supra!!

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/S...-in_146327.htm

[5000gt]

yeah somehow i don't think your budget of 15+ euros will cover it, lol.

probably close to 40k on that engine alone.

[Sciflyer]

do you want a laggy 400hp that almost never makes it onto boost? ie, 1.6l with 30+psi of boost

or do you want a car that is not laggy and has 400hp on tap? ie 2J or 1UZ with a lot less boost..

Came here to post this

No point having 400hp on a street car if you have to rev it to 5000 to make it

and will last 10000km before needing a rebuild

This is what you will get with a small capacity, high boost engine

For a street-driven car a 400hp 2JZ or 1UZ will be far better than a 400hp 1JZ or 3SGTE

[Smokey228]

Came here to post this

No point having 400hp on a street car if you have to rev it to 5000 to make it

and will last 10000km before needing a rebuild

This is what you will get with a small capacity, high boost engine

For a street-driven car a 400hp 2JZ or 1UZ will be far better than a 400hp 1JZ or 3SGTE

I make just shy of 350hp on the stock twins and an ECU... Its more streetable then the 1J in stock in my books as the ECU has given me better fuel consumption and a more reliable rev range..?

With a decent single, i'll make my 400hp and prolly make same boost now, a bit sooner too...

So how come a 1J isnt a good choice for a 400hp street car. Dont get me wrong, a 2J will make that power much better, but a 1J is going to make 400hp alot cheaper and alot easier then a 1UZ...

Cheers,
Jase

[Sciflyer]

Proof is in the pudding....

http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23314

look at all the ~400rwhp 1JZs in there, all significantly modified, all making well under 60rwhp at typical daily driver rpms (ie, under 3000rpm)

Even a stock, unboosted 1UZ makes more than that... yeah sure people can and do daily drive cars like that, but the simple fact is a larger capacity engine would be a far better option, especially if its going to be an auto

The saying "theres no replacement for displacement" is not just a bogan catchcry...

[Smokey228]

Proof is in the pudding....

http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23314

look at all the ~400rwhp 1JZs in there, all significantly modified, all making well under 60rwhp at typical daily driver rpms (ie, under 3000rpm)

Even a stock, unboosted 1UZ makes more than that... yeah sure people can and do daily drive cars like that, but the simple fact is a larger capacity engine would be a far better option, especially if its going to be an auto

The saying "theres no replacement for displacement" is not just a bogan catchcry...

Dude, ofcourse they are making less then 60hp at under 3000rpm, theres no throttle...

During a dyno run, the tuner will give lite throttle to bring the rpm right up, and then flame it for a very short stint... This is to keep the car down and not blow the motor by holding full stick for to long...

I'll agree with you on only one point. A 1uz will make more torque down low. I have no idea if it makes more toruqe over all or not, but it'll obviously drive around town a bit better...

Having said that, it will also eat more fuel doing that...

But if you want a 400hp car, that you can daily drive, your not going to build yourself a 1uz... Its either going to be N/a, expensive, chew fuel and probably be unreliable, or its going to be turbo, and all of the above but slightly less expensive...

Everyone of the 400hp+ cars in the linked thread, i'd gladly daily drive And as a daily driver of a 350rwhp 1jz, i can tell you from experience, they make enough torque for your daily activities... I mean sheesh man, there are people driving smart cars, that probably make all of 35hp at those rpm

But im not just saying all this cause i have a 1JZ... My ultimate engine would be a 2jz. Which makes alot more torque, power, and will do said power figures alot easier and more reliably, probbaly for a fraction of the price too

Cheers,
Jase

[Sciflyer]

400hp requires a given amount of fuel and air for a certain Volumetric Efficiency, for the sake of this argument it does not matter what engine it is

So you cannot say a 1UZ will use more fuel, in fact theres a good chance it will use less as boost and cylinder pressures will be lower, therefore the AFRs will not need to be as rich, and it will be more efficient at lower rpm than a big-turbo, smaller capacity engine

While i agree that the initial cost will be higher, without knowing what the OP's budget or goal is for this car we cant discount any engine

[Smokey228]

I would assume that a 1UZ will chew more fuel putting around the city, in comparison to a big turbo small capacity motor, as you wont be getting on boost or hammering it in the rev range of either engine while street driving...

I.e. I drive around at all rpm but at 0 vacuum most of the time, so its acting as a 2.5L 6 cyl, low comp n/a car as the turbos arent providing any boost pressure...

A 1uz under identical circumstances is still acting as a 4L v8.. So im not sure, but to me its chewing more fuel...

Turbo said v8, stick on a computer, and to me, it doesnt make sense not to chew more fuel then same pwoer bigger turbo 6cyl... But im not clued up on that, so my argument is just a personal idea, it holds no real ground

While we dont know what he wants the car for, we do know his goal and budget, its 400rwhp with a toyota engine and a budget of what equates to about $22,000AU, probably more with our incredibly poor dollar... But non the less, he said 15,000euros...

For a celica, as he has stated he owns, i still stick by my guns and say for 400hp, the first engine i would consider is the 1JZ... Next would be the 2JZ, a bit more work, a bit more money, a lot more engine...

Cheers,
Jase

[The Real Roadrunner]

look at all the ~400rwhp 1JZs in there, all significantly modified, all making well under 60rwhp at typical daily driver rpms (ie, under 3000rpm)

Even a stock, unboosted 1UZ makes more than that... yeah sure people can and do daily drive cars like that, but the simple fact is a larger capacity engine would be a far better option, especially if its going to be an auto

The saying "theres no replacement for displacement" is not just a bogan catchcry...

i can garuantee that any day of the week my 1jz would smack the crap out of stock unboosted 1UZ at any roadspeed and mainly due to the fact that it is an AUTO, all i need to do to accelerate is hit the pedal and let the converter and turbo do there majic.

there is a replacement for displacement, its call extra atmospheres.

im yet to be impressed by an early 1UZ and the only one i would have is the VVTi version in which case it will require a rebuild to do 400rwhp wether it be NA or FI.

and having done a fair few engine conversions in my time i wouldn't even attempt to do a TT1UZ in a celica with a budget of less than $30K if you want it done right.


Cheers
Linden

PS there is buggerall modified about my 1JZ other than a turbo kit and ecu. you would need them also if you wanted to start with a 1UZ.

[Sciflyer]

Well he's already talking 20k+ budget and considering he will need to completely overhaul the driveline to deal with 400hp this would be a major project anyway, i somehow doubt its going to come down to bang for buck

And if it does, well if he is sourcing parts from the States a 1UZ/3UZ engine and parts could be picked up for next to nothing, (and access to aftermarket parts too) whereas a 1JZ will be as rare as hens teeth...

But as i said before, without knowing more about the purpose and limits of the project nothing should be discounted at this stage

budget conversion = 1JZ
ground-up high hp build = 2JZ or turbo 1/3UZ

[driftke70]

3sgte ftw



12345

[$upra$rule]

I would assume that a 1UZ will chew more fuel putting around the city, in comparison to a big turbo small capacity motor, as you wont be getting on boost or hammering it in the rev range of either engine while street driving...

I.e. I drive around at all rpm but at 0 vacuum most of the time, so its acting as a 2.5L 6 cyl, low comp n/a car as the turbos arent providing any boost pressure...

A 1uz under identical circumstances is still acting as a 4L v8.. So im not sure, but to me its chewing more fuel...

A decent argument if both cars have the same rear-end gear ratio. But that should not be the case. The 1uz torque at low rpm allows for taller gears so has lower rpm at any given speed and therefore chews less fuel daily driven.

[river]

Hi,

I moved this thread out of "Conversions" as it just a discussion about engines, and does not offer any technical information or procedures for converting any engine into a car.

seeyuzz
river

[Mos]

I would assume that a 1UZ will chew more fuel putting around the city, in comparison to a big turbo small capacity motor, as you wont be getting on boost or hammering it in the rev range of either engine while street driving...

The variable you're forgetting is the compression ratio - low compression means less efficient, so combined with the taller gear ratios, the higher compression of the 1UZ would make it more efficient at those speeds/revs.

I.e. I drive around at all rpm but at 0 vacuum most of the time, so its acting as a 2.5L 6 cyl, low comp n/a car as the turbos arent providing any boost pressure...

You're still pushing exhaust through the turbines, and using a relatively inefficient region of the engine's operating range (ie an atmo 1JZ-GE will make more power).

a budget of what equates to about $22,000AU, probably more with our incredibly poor dollar... But non the less, he said 15,000euros...

15000 Euros is AU$29,558.62 - so we're talking closer to 30k than 22k.

3sgte ftw

Are you serious?

The larger the capacity, the less "extra" it needs to achieve the 400rwhp, and the more streetable it will be.
Combine that with the criteria of what fits, how much it screws the balance of the chassis and what's important (we know some of that, not all).

There are other options popular in the US - 22R, 3RZ, etc.

I'd love to see the torque curves of 1JZs and 2JZs off dyno days compared to my 1UZ as it now makes peak torque at 3500rpm, although that's probably a moot point if the chosen engine will sit in front of an auto.

Mos.