Motorised throttle body

[amichie]

Is there any benefit in using a motorised throttle body other than eliminating the throttle cable?

Does the ECU decide what is the best throttle angle based on rpm and pedal position?

Or is it just a way of eliminating the human error factor such as meathead mechanics not being able to remove, refit and adjust it correctly?


Any thoughts?

I have noticed there are a few motorised ones on ebay off lS2 engines.

[turbo4agte]

Is there any benefit in using a motorised throttle body other than eliminating the throttle cable?

Does the ECU decide what is the best throttle angle based on rpm and pedal position?

Or is it just a way of eliminating the human error factor such as meathead mechanics not being able to remove, refit and adjust it correctly?


Any thoughts?

I have noticed there are a few motorised ones on ebay off lS2 engines.

What alot of people call it is 'drive by wire'. There are 3 main benefits to this setup:

1. Gives the ECU an easy way to implement traction control by overriding throttle.
2. Allows for the ECU or another module to easily implement cruise control
3. Removes a mechanical wear point from the cable

On OEM setups its a direct drive in comparison to the driver's input. The only other way it is manipulated is by TCS.

[wa5]

When Holden went Fly by wire, with the introduction of the Alloytech in the VZ, they claimed at the press release that on benefit would be better reliability.

One Journalist took them to task on that claim, and asked the press liason to back it up... He returned with an answer a few days later, stating that they had no warranty claims in the last seven years on Throttle cables... I wonder if the same could be said for fly by wire? given its complexity...

[RAd28]

He returned with an answer a few days later, stating that they had no warranty claims in the last seven years on Throttle cables... I wonder if the same could be said for fly by wire? given its complexity...

exactly what i was thinking... throttle cables aren't exactly subject to huge forces or cyclical... though i'd be inclined to have a bit more faith in electronics today, they're just about everywhere, so they must be doing something right...

[wilbo666]

As said, fly by wire (FBW) gives a few agvantages from an OEM perspective..

>Traction control implementation (No extra TB needed -> cost saving)
>Cruise control implementation (No extra cable / actuator / etc needed)
>Idle control implementation (No IACV / or equivalent needed)
>Allows the ECU to implement gearbox saving features / driving enhancements (e.g. throttle blip on downshift)

Cheers
Wilbo

[RAd28]

As said, fly by wire (FBW) gives a few agvantages from an OEM perspective..

>Traction control implementation (No extra TB needed -> cost saving)
>Cruise control implementation (No extra cable / actuator / etc needed)
>Idle control implementation (No IACV / or equivalent needed)
>Allows the ECU to implement gearbox saving features / driving enhancements (e.g. throttle blip on downshift)

Cheers
Wilbo

Wonder if you could get the motor from the throttle body and use it on a different application... like a carby or something.... (just thinking out loud)

[Jin~Jah]

When Holden went Fly by wire, with the introduction of the Alloytech in the VZ, they claimed at the press release that on benefit would be better reliability.

One Journalist took them to task on that claim, and asked the press liason to back it up... He returned with an answer a few days later, stating that they had no warranty claims in the last seven years on Throttle cables... I wonder if the same could be said for fly by wire? given its complexity...

When Holden introduced Fly By Wire in the VZ Alloytech, they screwed throttle response and introduced a huge delay into the system! I used to drive a manual VZ sv6 with the fan-dangled Alloytech, and it certainly had it's quirks! One of which was the notable delay between when you apply the accelerator to when the engine actually revs

[Jin~Jah]

Wonder if you could get the motor from the throttle body and use it on a different application... like a carby or something.... (just thinking out loud)

yeah that could work, as long as you had all the right sensors going back to a box to control it

[fixeruperer]

fly by wire sucks i hate new cars that have it, when trying to diagnose a problem you need two people to rev the engine while you do you thing or when your driving you put your foot down and theres a delay and eventuly you cant set a rev like if i wont 1500rpm it will go past and sit at 2000 or 1000.
ITS SHIT hehe.
i would way rather trust a cable than a stupid electronic device that is waiting to stuff up.

technology sux thats why i have a ae86 hehe.

one good thing out of it is that it wont let you rev a cold engine like it will limit at 3500rpm

[wa5]

Mate used to own an LA Lancer (74 ish model) it cost him a hundred bucks....his party trick (in fact his everyday warmup technique as well) was to wind it over whilst holding it flat.... the car would fire and reach valve bounce before the oil pressure came up.... that was a tough little car...

[PlacentaJuan]

yea i would hate not being able to rev the engine from under the bonnet.

also there would be a lot more to it than just fitting a motor to the butterfly, you would need to fit sensors to the accelerator pedal etc.

[amichie]

As said, fly by wire (FBW) gives a few agvantages from an OEM perspective..

>Traction control implementation (No extra TB needed -> cost saving)
>Cruise control implementation (No extra cable / actuator / etc needed)
>Idle control implementation (No IACV / or equivalent needed)
>Allows the ECU to implement gearbox saving features / driving enhancements (e.g. throttle blip on downshift)

Cheers
Wilbo

Do you think it is possible that at low rpm and high load you can actually get more power with partial throttle opening due to increased air velocity. Drive by wire may actually help in this case.

A bit like the old SU carbies or the twin throat carbs with vacuum secondaries that would only open up after you get a decent amount of vacuum.

[Vios-GT_07]

^^
I is +1 for hate drive by wire... very noticable lag in throttle response.. the only car with minimal throttle response is the renault megane 225 sport thing, wth the funny bum.. the very worst for lag is the honda accord euro... i can hold the throttle flat down while shifting gears and it would drop revs and "hiccup" through every gear change.

new mitsubishi lancer wagon ES , 2.4 mivec.. that's ok for drive by wire.. can chirp tyres and have some lag but managable.. just apply pedal earlier..

i wonder how long the motor in the drive by wire throttle thing is supposed to last? throttle cables can be adjusted for tension, but wouldn't an electric motor wear out? (i'm thinking like a starter motor or a fan)

[Night Rider-TA23]

I have been transplantig an Ls1 chev from a VZ commodore into a boat (the Ls1 has electronic throttle). I used Hp tuners software to get into the PCM's tables. There is a table that maps accelertaor pedal position to throttle body position as a function of RPM. Typical numbers are at 1800 rpm 90% accellerator gives 40% opening at throttle body. Just in case a train is coming on a level crossing 100% accelertaor pedal gives 100% throttle opening. So they are programmed to be sluggish off full throtlle probably for emissions and consumption reasons.

[RAd28]

that's a pretty good point... controlling smoothness of the application on the throttle would surely help to protect drive line components too...