Ma61 rear arms into Z10 for less track

[Johnzoku]

hey all.

i remember reading somewhere that the Ma61's rear swingarms are shorter so the track is narrower than the Z10's. when i first heard this i thought it might of been a mistake but...

ive talked to a few mates that have fitted much wider rims under there guards than i have. i run 15x8.5 -8's with 195/60's and i had to make the innerguards ubber flat. i have a mate with a ra65 that with a mild inner guard roll; fitted 14x9.5 -20's and another with a ma61 fitted 15x10 -10's in there stock guards (not the flairs either, just the metal guards)

weather its true or not or why you would run such wide wheels is not up for debate here.

im planing on running some 15x10 -20 SSR MK1 rims on the rear but would rather keep the stock guards rather than making huge metal ones or bolt on over fenders.

so question is, is there a differance and how much over all track change?

proposed rims - these new rims will sit about 32mm out from the rims im running now.



current fitment pics




this is an example of the fitment im looking for - very sweet fitment on this Z10

14" - ８Ｊoff-１２／９．５Ｊoff-１９ - my rims would prob. sit about 7mm more out from these.




THANKS.
JOHN.

[CrUZida]

Pretty sure its the rear subframe thats different, and not the rear swingarms.

I can't remember if its 20mm per side, or 20mm total.

Have a look at the Soarer brochure vs the Supra brochure and compare the rear track.

[Johnzoku]

humm... 20mm each side would be ideal, but then again 20mm in total wouldnt be worth it will have a hunt around for the ma61 track widths.

according to this site - http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...ho/soarprd.htm

all Mz10, 11 & 12's have a overall rear track of 1450 while Gz10's have a track of 1435

i have a Gz10 i could use but not work the effort for 15mm

i need to rebuild my rear end anyway (proper LSD and new bushes, as mines making a few clunking noises) so fixing a whole rear end then putting it in would be ideal.

[Johnzoku]

humm... more info from that page ^^^
rear track
SA63R-BCMSCQ 2S-C CP Man 5F W55 T 3.909 XT 1385
SA63R-BLPQCQ 2S-C LB Auto 4FC A40D T 4.100 XT 1385

im not convinced tho, i assume that this would also have something to do with the drum brakes that the sa63 runs.

and the japanese XA63 rear end widths range from 1385 to 1400, but that would include celica XX, carina, corona etc...

which gives me an idea...

corona

RT142-EMSFA 22R-E 4DS Man 5F 87kW/4800 198Nm/2800 9.3 1375 1350
RT142-EMGFB PS 22R-E 4DS Man 5F 87kW/4800 198Nm/2800 9.3 1375 1350
RT142-EPGFA PS 4DS Auto 87kW/4800 198Nm/2800 9.3 1375 1350

humm... still brakes and 1350 is was to narrow :S would be like having mini tubs

corona) 1440 - 1350 = 90 - 64 (32mm each side) = 26mm less track... no good
celica sa63) 1440 - 1385 = 55 - 64 (32mm each side) = 9mm more track... could work?
supra ma61) 1440 - 1400? = 40 - 64 = 24mm?

and according to this site - http://celica.dublet.org/reference.pl?celica=MA61

track width Front: 1.465m
Rear: 1.425m

[wilbo666]

I've got pics of the difference at home. xA6x vs xZ1x.

The difference is in the rear subframe, not the arms.

The mounting points for the Z1x arms are 20mm further out each side (40mm total more track) I think. It is a significant amount. I could measure a MA61 side shaft vs MZ10 side shaft to confirm...(The side shafts are also longer as a result of the track change).

RT142 rear arms are the same as MA61 (I have them in my MA61). And I used RA65 rear arms as my jig to setup my adj camber in the Z12 so I can confirm that the that arm mounting is the same (not to say the rest of the arm is, but I strongly believe that is it xA6x -> xZ1x)

Also the upper rear diff sub frame is also different xZ1x compared to xA6x.

Cheers
Wilbo

[CrUZida]

GZ10 track is because of 14x5.5 wheels instead of 15x6.

You need to compare MZ10 with 15x6 to MA61 with 15x6.

[Johnzoku]

thats a good point as well cruzida, which would explain the differances in the Gz10 to mz10 and the differances in Xa6X's that i found.

but if the mounts on the subframe are 20mm futher in each side on the ma61 one copaired to the z10 like wilbo said then i think we have a winner there, as long as the mounts of the sub frame are the same width apart.

so to gain the extra width would be, Ma61 sub frame, Z11 rear swing arms, Ma61/Rt142 drive shafts, Z11 diff & diff sub frame?

[wilbo666]

thats a good point as well cruzida, which would explain the differances in the Gz10 to mz10 and the differances in Xa6X's that i found.

but if the mounts on the subframe are 20mm futher in each side on the ma61 one copaired to the z10 like wilbo said then i think we have a winner there, as long as the mounts of the sub frame are the same width apart.

so to gain the extra width would be, Ma61 sub frame, Z11 rear swing arms, Ma61/Rt142 drive shafts, Z11 diff & diff sub frame?

You can simplify that to:
>MA61, RA65, RT142 front diff subframe
>MZ1x rear, upper diff subframe
>MA61 or MZ1x or RT142 rear arms
>MA61, RA65, RT142 side shafts
>MA61, RA65, MZ1x, RT142 diff (they all fit)

So the parts you need for what you want are:
>MA61, RA65, RT142 front diff subframe
>MA61, RA65, RT142 side shafts (I prbly have a spare set of these...)


Might also be worth considering if you have room in regards to the body to push the wheels further in.... My 17x9", +27effective (+35 - 6 - 2) with 255 rubber get very close (and have on occasion) to scrubbing on the inside...

Might be worth checking that before you go to the effort...

Cheers
Wilbo

[Johnzoku]

ive checked the specs and if i run 205/60, 215/60 or 215/55 i should have 20mm cleearnace over the stock mz11 15x6 +20 rims due to the strech of the tyre but the rim face will be 30mm further inside than the stock rims so that was one point i was thinking about so ill have a good look at that before i start.

also i have effectivly 15mm clearance over your rims im thinking due to losing 20mm each side making them more like 15x10 +-0 when they sit on the narrower subframe.

if your wondering im using this program to check - its pretty accurate i would think/hope
www.auszoku.net/banden.xls.

[wilbo666]

Well looking back at my pics, I don't think the sub frames will interchange...

The pics aren't the best, but it looks like they won't line up...in fact I'm pretty sure that is the case, as I think the reason that I found out they were different was because I tried to put the RA65 one in, instead of the Z12 one...





Cheers
Wilbo

[CrUZida]

What makes you think they won't interchange ?

[wilbo666]

What makes you think they won't interchange ?

Hmm, I can't remember now if I tried to see if the RA65 fitted or not...

I recall seeing a MX73 one in a MA61 one once,,, and I think MX73 is the same as xZ1x, so yeah it should fit...

I might have been confused with the rear upper diff sub frame not fitting

Cheers
Wilbo

[CrUZida]

My Z10 is definitely not *identical* to the MX73 (my Z10 looks the same as your Z in the pic above). Not sure if the mount points were the same, but it had a shiteload more bracing around the swing arm mount points.

[Johnzoku]

humm... looks like im going to have to take a trip to some wrekcers to find some measurements. i know abc wacol has ra65 and a mx73... altho finding a ma61 sub frame i think would be ideal.

thanks for the pics will, that ra65 does look narrower relative to where the mounts sit on the sub frame.

here's a pic of the comparison between current rims (really really tight fit!!!) and proposed rims

15x8 -19 and 15x10 -20

this is the same with effectivley 0 offset due to moving in 20mm each side. its more like 44mm rather than 32... i dont know where i was getting that yesterday?

215/55 is the prefered tyre size but not be the size i use due to availiblity maybe 205/60 or even 225/55's

[WDE_BDY]

I have two subframes out of the car here, a TA63 and a TT142. Just let me know exactly where you want it measured and i will see what I can do.

Callum