I want valves. Tell me whats good and what's not.

[TERRA Operative]

I am starting the buildup of the head on my 4AGZE. So far, I have a few things planned (HKS and JUN internals, TRD spec combustion chamber reshaping etc), but I am at a loss when looking at valves.
I briefly toyed with the idea of custom titanium valves, but $$$ quickly became an issue....

So what's the go? What's good and what's not? I'm thinking stainless steel, but I've got no idea when it comes to brands etc.


Help!

[fixeruperer]

http://www.ferrea.com/

[TERRA Operative]

What's the standard size for 4AG(Z)E valves? My head is at the mechanics getting crack tested etc, so I can't measure it.

[jeffro ra28]

A common choice is inconel exhaust valves and titanium intake vales. Titanium exhaust valves are not desirable on engines acheiving high EGT ei. turbo aplications. They will not withstand the temperture for extended periods and will have a short life.

Otherwise stainless is your best bet. It has been proven and is widely used on alot of peformance engines etc.

Titanium valves are very exxy. With boeing this year buying 3 times more titanium then anyone else in the world and now thousands of golf clubs with it, it is becoming a product in shortage hence its expense

[TERRA Operative]

Yea, the same happened with Being and Airbus with carbon fibre...

As per the Ferrera 'Competition Plus' valves applicable to the 4AGE:

To manufacture the valves we use special aerospace quality alloys, including EV8-Z18, which provides high tensile strength. An exclusive two-step slow forging process ensures proper grain flow and virtually eliminated any damage to the material structure. The valves are then heat treated and stress-relieved over a 48-hour period, which is the crucial base of our molecular integrity. These valves feature avionics-quality hard chrome along with a specially applied hard tip.

EV8-Z18 is Stainless Steel (Chromium / Nickel) + Tungsten of you were wondering.



Sound good? Any other brands to look at?

[oldcorollas]

LOL at their misuse of technical terms

have you checked how the head flows with different valves at different lift.. is there much to be gained?

[Billzilla]

So what's the go? What's good and what's not? I'm thinking stainless steel, but I've got no idea when it comes to brands etc.

Nothing wrong with the stock valves. Your money is better-spent elsewhere.

[TERRA Operative]

Just want something bullet proof. Stock size is fine. I just haven't looked into valves much before, so I've got no idea.
I plan on an SC14 pushing 15 pound to start with, and keeping the stock redline.

This is a more complete list of what I am planning:

- HKS Cam gears
- HKS springs
- JUN titanium valve spring retainers
- Shimless buckets from the 1SZ-FE
- Combustion chamber modified to TRD Group-A specifications.
- Intake and exhaust ports smoothed etc.
- Combustion chamber and valves ceramic coated
- Decent valves, probably Ferrera Stainless valves. <- Not needed?
- Custom built Tighe cams. Around about 264 duration, 8mm lift.
- 5 angle valve job.
- New valve stem seals etc.

So stock valves would be cool to use for this build?

[jeffro ra28]

short answer YES.

The money could be better spent elsewhere as already stated.

I think you mean custom "grind" cams also

[TERRA Operative]

Yea, something like that

[Billzilla]

Just want something bullet proof. Stock size is fine. I just haven't looked into valves much before, so I've got no idea.
I plan on an SC14 pushing 15 pound to start with, and keeping the stock redline.

This is a more complete list of what I am planning:

- HKS Cam gears Pulleys, gears is incorrect
- HKS springs You don't need anothing other than stock springs with only 8mm lift
- JUN titanium valve spring retainers Why? Stock retainers never break even when insanely abused
- Shimless buckets from the 1SZ-FE a reasonable idea
- Combustion chamber modified to TRD Group-A specifications. Those mods are for an NA engine, not a boosted one
- Intake and exhaust ports smoothed etc.
- Combustion chamber and valves ceramic coated Good
- Custom built Tighe cams. Around about 264 duration, 8mm lift. If you're going to put bigger cams in, make then bigger and not just toys. Go for 270° - 280° and around 10mm - 11mm lift and then you'll need some better valve gear

Something like that.

[fixeruperer]

ceramic coatings in aus from what ive experianced isnt too good as the coating it self is too thick and breaks away im happy to apply it to exhaust's but on valves or comustion chambers im scared to .
im probably seeing the wrong people but if anyone out there know's a good ceramic coater plz tell me.

[TERRA Operative]

Awesome info.

Yea, pulleys. Force of habit from my Ford crossflow days....
I was thinking of the JUN retainers to reduce moving mass on the valve train, would this help? Cost isn't much of a determining factor.
For the combustion chamber, I was looking at following this idea. Mainly to smooth out the chamber to help prevent detonation. Is it not needed?
The cams are still up in the air at the moment. I haven't done heaps of research into the specifics. Seeing as I have a supercharger, will that help fill in the low end from using big cams?

[thechuckster]

Competition Coatings in brisbane have been doing this (ceramic coating of piston and valve and other combustion-chamber faces) for quite some time now. They also do the interior of turbo turbine housings.

[fixeruperer]

youd find more gain in lightening the bottem end e.g crank, rods, flywheels and pulleys. As bill said the stock retainers are fine but i updraded myne just because my original ones where old and that stuff plays around in my head.
yeh the combustion chamber is pretty dam important and even simply smoothing it out can help a whole lot, 4ag's in my experiance take a bit too ping/pre detonate anyway.

cam's are a hard topic i just use big cams becuase i wont top end power and i dont care about the first 5000rpm. you have to find out where you wont power and talk to a cam guru he will piont you in the right direction.




chuckster funny you say that i use Competition Coatings in perth they did my ex manifold and rear housing black outside white inside but i dont trust there coating in the combustion chamber. With your competition coating place are most of there work done to race or competition engines that are always torn down ?, and do you know how thick there coating is ?



its ok i found it

What about clearances?
The dry film lubricant will burnish as they run until they are no longer visible. They are applied at a thickness ranging from .0005" to .0015". However before assembly the coating may be burnished back to less than .0002 with gentle buffing using "scotchbrite" or similar material. NO CHANGES need to be made to clearances due to the use of these coatings, though in many instances because of the reduced part temperatures and increased lubrication tighter clearances may be run.