3tc wont start please help

[Cob604]

hey guys
i need help as this is really confusing me

i bought the 3t with a ra23 parts car that has a 1ggze mounted in it
im trying to get the 3t running in my ta23 as a every day driver & then upgrade the ta23 to cope with the 1ggze then one weekend wack the 1ggze in it

atm i have put the 3tc in the ta23 with a t50 on it

the old owner told me that the carby could need a rebuild & that he drove it once off the trailer
now it still wont start
ive rebuilt the carby ( i know it is getting fuel, when i turn the electronic fuel pump off & crank the fuel in the float bowl goes down)
ive replaced the spark plugs, points, dizzy cap, dizzy rotor & a few other things

on saturday i finished rebuilding the carby i wacked it on & also had recharged the battery. cranked it & as there is no exhaust it shot 2 flames out of diferent cylinders. so i pumped the throtle a few to many times & flooded it. then cranked it & i got nothing for the next few minutes. since then i have replaced the spark plugs & tested them on all the leads ( i get a good spark while cranking out of all 4 cyl spark plugs

put it all back together & tried it today
i got confused with the timing & it as it SLOWELY turned over it backfired out the carby & i realised that it was firing as it was on the intake stroke, so i moved all the leads around 1 on the top of the dizzy & it tried to start again but didnt

so now i think it is the battery as it turns over slowely & fires only when i open the choke

please help

thx

[GasedT18]

Has the 3T-C been stored for a long time?
Do a static timing, check the firing order.
Check the point gap again.
Check the earth leads.


D

[Born-Enthusiast]

I'd have to agree with GasedT18.
Take off the dizzy cap and turn the engine to top dead center. The firing order should be 1-3-4-2 so adjust the leads in this order clockwise around the dizzy cap with lead 1 being inline with first initial spark. To find TDC use a 19mm spanner to manually rotate the crank now remember that piston 1 comes to the top 2 times in a complete rotation so make sure you have it at the top just before the spark hits lead 1.
make it look like this:
http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us...rInfoPages.htm

turn the crank so it is slightly behind spark and put dizzy back together. Don't over prime the engine one squirt of fuel is plenty. remember to remove spanner off crack bolt it hurts if it flings up and hits you. . . no really. Hopefully this should do it for you. just remember to let a little air in to when choking hope this helps mate

[Cob604]

GasedT18-
Has the 3T-C been stored for a long time?The guy i bought the parts car off had the 3tc in the car & drove it off the trailer, then he put the 1ggze in it.
He told he it has been siting around 6 months.
But its not seized & the compression is enough for it to run
cyl 1- 120 psi
cyl 2- 62 psi
cyl 3- 88 psi
cyl 4- 70 psi
the engine was flooded when i done this i think but i only wanted a rough estimate
Do a static timing, check the firing order.how do i do the static timing, as the exhuast is off atm i put the motorto tdc & looked at the exhaust valves & 3 was open which meant that 1 was firing, firing order 1342
Check the point gap again.i set it with a .5 feeler guage i think, but im getting a strong spark so it cant be the electrical side of it
Check the earth leadsall good

Born-Enthusiast- yeah ive done all the timing & electrical side of it as im getting a strong spark & it fires when i play with the choke then dies

Atm im thinking it must be the carby of the battery
as it only fires when i open the choke, im thinking that its to rich & that when i open it a little bit its getting close to the right fuel to air mixture & therefore it fires.

i adjusted the air:fuel mixture screw 1 1/2 turns out as my rebuild kit said BUT i read in my 3tc manual that its meant to be 2 5/8 turns out. so its either to lean or to rich, either way its not going to start if its that far out.

so on saturday im going to
test the resistance in all the spark plug leads
Put the extractors on
put some coolant in it
put a fully recharged battery in it
adjust the air fuel mixture screw to 2 5/8 turns out

& try to jump start it off my mums car (that way my battery wont go flat & i can play with things to see what is the problem

thx guys
any other ideas

[oldcorollas]

i think you forgot to open the throttle when doing the compression test...

otherwise.. that motor is rooted

[79GT]

Hey mate, old corrollas prob right...that is a really bad compression test.

but other than that, is the car running when you give it revs, and then just dieing when you let it drop back to idle, or just firing.

if it is running at revs but not at idle, make sure your carby solenoid has an ignition feed, with out this the engine wont get enough fuel unless the revs are way up. something to check mate. good luck Jamie

[Cob604]

i think you forgot to open the throttle when doing the compression test...

otherwise.. that motor is rooted

yeah i didnt open the throttle what affect does this have on the copression test

im thinking its the air fuel mixture screw as ive got spark, timing & everything else
but it only fires when i open the choke, meaning at one point its getting the correct ratio

in the rebuild kit i got it says 1 1/2 turns out
BUT in the manual it says 2 5/8 turns out

so if the manual is right then atm its way to lean to start

does anyone know the initial setting for the 3tc screws e.g
Fast idle screw
Idle adjustment screw
Air fuel mixture screw

thx heaps

[Cob604]

Hey mate, old corrollas prob right...that is a really bad compression test.

but other than that, is the car running when you give it revs, and then just dieing when you let it drop back to idle, or just firing.

if it is running at revs but not at idle, make sure your carby solenoid has an ignition feed, with out this the engine wont get enough fuel unless the revs are way up. something to check mate. good luck Jamie

it doesnt start at all, the most i have got is it fired twice in a row, which a recharged battery & rebuilt carby

READ ABOVE ABOUT AIR FUEL MIXTURE SCREW

thx heaps

[Hurricane]

pull your rocker cover off, turn the motor over till NO. 1 pistion is at TDC( put a screw driving in the spark plug hole to see when it is a the top).

and check that NO.4 EX valve has just closed the the inlet valve has just started to opened(this is your overlap) this will tell you now that NO.1 is at top dead and ready to fire. all so the timing marks on the pully will line up some were near 0, turn it to 10 before tdc when you check were the rotor button is faceing.

now check were the dizzy rotor button is facing and set your fire order off this. 1342 runing clockwise.

then see if it will fire, try with your foot flat on the floor and off, if it is flooded it will only fire at full throttle.

if this fails, try turning the dizzy a little to change the static timing, it might be retarded to much so turn it too the left ( i think?)

if that also fails then the only thing left with igntion is the points gap.

big vacum leaks will also do some similar things to what you have. and burnt out or stuck open EX valves.

with the idle mix settings i screw it all the way in and then turn it out 2 full turns.

see how you go first though.
cheers,dan

[Cob604]

pull your rocker cover off, turn the motor over till NO. 1 pistion is at TDC( put a screw driving in the spark plug hole to see when it is a the top).

and check that NO.4 EX valve has just closed the the inlet valve has just started to opened(this is your overlap) this will tell you now that NO.1 is at top dead and ready to fire. all so the timing marks on the pully will line up some were near 0, turn it to 10 before tdc when you check were the rotor button is faceing.

now check were the dizzy rotor button is facing and set your fire order off this. 1342 runing clockwise.

then see if it will fire, try with your foot flat on the floor and off, if it is flooded it will only fire at full throttle.

if this fails, try turning the dizzy a little to change the static timing, it might be retarded to much so turn it too the left ( i think?)

if that also fails then the only thing left with igntion is the points gap.

big vacum leaks will also do some similar things to what you have. and burnt out or stuck open EX valves.

with the idle mix settings i screw it all the way in and then turn it out 2 full turns.

see how you go first though.
cheers,dan

I know the ignition side of things is a1 as ive replaced 90% of it all, it sparks good when i hold a spark plug near the strut tower bolt
& just test the timing ect i moved all the leads counter clock wise 1 post & cranked it & it backfires out the carby so i now that they are all right(moved then back to normal)

there is only 1 vacum hose attached atm as i dont know where all the rest go.

ill try tomorrow with the fuel air ratio mixture screw as it makes sense that atm the screw is to far in & there fore to lean.
When i close the choke it is to rich
so thats why when i open the chock it fires as it must be getting close to the right ratio.

IT ONLY FIRES WHEN I OPEN THE CHOKE THERFORE THE PROBLEM IS WITH THE FUEL SIDE OF THINGS

DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE THE VACCUM HOSES GO, COULD I GET A DIAGRAM OR SOMETHING.

& HOW DO I TELL IF IT A 2TC OR 3TC CARBY AS THE 3TC HAD 2 WIRES COMING OUT THE IDLE CONTROL THING RIGHT?

thx heaps

[jeffro ra28]

Cob, if your using the fuel pump that i gave to you with the car it may be pushing to much pressure for that carby.
I had a suspicioun that it was to was much fuel pressure when i used it. But never actually checked it. It was slightly lazy to start also. Would foul plugs alot.

If you were given a stock mechanical pump with the 3tc may i suggest you run with that. Simply bypass the current electric pump.

[Cob604]

yeah i see what you are saying but is nt that what the return line is for, & it cant be forcing the fuel through as the float level stabalises after it is full & the goes back to the tank

the plugs i pulled out were completely black (too rich i think) & i installed new ones

yeah i got a mechanical one on the side just means i have to stuff around.

im nearly defient that its the mixture screw

thx heaps

[oldcorollas]

yeah i didnt open the throttle what affect does this have on the copression test

if throttle is not open, then little air gets into cylinder, and you have no air to compress, so it looks like you have no compression.

disconnect the coil from the dizzy, or otherwise disable it
hold the throttle open.
creank 3 or 4 times
check reading.

[Cob604]

ok but that still shouldnt stop the engine from firing

it only fires when i open the choke so its a fuel problem

what im thinking is this:

the rebuild kit i got said the screw the mixture screw out 1 1/2 turns
where the proper manual says turn it out 2 5/8 turns

so if the manual is right the car is very lean atm

& when i close the choke it becomes to rich

& therfore when i open the choke to a point it fires as it is sucking in the rigt air & fuel ratio

what do you all think

thx

[jeffro ra28]

Mate, best nail this thing one at a time. Do yourself a favour and rig up the standard mechanical fuel pump. The electric pump that is on the car is designed for a 6 cylinder and is pumping way to much fuel probably pumping fuel past your needle and seat. It was two big for the handy 2tg i had in it and its going to be way to big for a stock 3tc. It may not fix your problem but its an arrow pointing in the right direction. It should be done anyway.

A simple mixture screw shouldnt prevent your engine from starting and running.

Only other advice i can offer is make sure your battery is FULLY charged. Not this rushed half charged slow cranking bullshit.