3tc wont start please help

[GasedT18]

Replacing a head gasket does not, and should not, simply involve taking the old one off an putting a new one on. If you took the head off you should send it off for reco = $$$ (can anyone offer a realistic quote - and for what - , clean, new guides, regrind old/new valves and seats, seals, de-warp if necessary, shave. The surface of the block can be a problem and is a known problem on M engines (or a subclass or n=1). To grind the block - well you may as well do a complete rebuild. Add it up and you may as well buy an import engine. Yes, 3T's can be made to go hard=$$$$. Or if you just need a daily donk try your other engine.

I still think, that at least from one way of trying to comprehend what you wrote, that your timing is out - it sounds like you are firing at the end of the power stroke (see my post above).

You have put at least the exhaust manifold back on and even an exhaust? You might be surprised that back pressure could be helpful and your neighbours (and pets) might also appreciate it too.

What sort of carby is it? - can you/anyone post an exploded diagram or links to servicing Toyota carbs (I'm having problems with one on a 4A-C, probably the auto choke and possibly a thermostat issue - will post elsewhere)?

D

[jeffro ra28]

can anyone offer a realistic quote - and for what - , clean, new guides, regrind old/new valves and seats, seals, de-warp if necessary, shave

Generally speaking,
$12 per valve(cut seat and face valve)
$60-$80 for a surface grind
$20- Acid bath
$15- Consumables
$50- dismantle and assemble.

Thats a fair price guide. Depends which machine shop ofcourse

[oldcorollas]

Born-Enthusiast- yeah i have done new compression test the results are up to my second post on this page.
well the stale fuel isnt helping atm i know that, so im going to try new fuel this weekend
even if the valves are bent & the head gasket is blown (which i doubt as the compression results dont show that). i asked the head mechaic at work & he said buy a can of aero start as for a engine to not start the head gasket would have to be blown that bad it might as well not be there

yah, he already showed that the comnpression is totally rooted.

mechanic at work told you to buy aerostart?
haven't you already shown that it starts when you squirt fuel in? you are surounded by ijits

and yes.. your engine sounds that blown

but all you need to do is ACTUALLY CHECK IT

i thought you had ruled out stale fuel before?

you really need to rule out bent valves and blown head gasket.

edit:
dry wet
112 140 psi
70 75 psi
82 108 psi
90 129 psi

no cylinder has good compression.

[jeffro ra28]

stu, you may not be aware man, Aerostart fixes everything! And when it does run on aerostart only and nothing else, it means that you have to run that engine on ether if you want to drive it!

[oldcorollas]

i thought aerostart was mostly LPG? maybe that is just rumour ...

http://www.crcind.com.au/catalogue.n...$FILE/MSDS.pdf
ohhh, may cause cancer
hmm, more than 60% petrol
10-30% diethyl-ether
less than 10% ethanol
less than 10% CO2

so basically.. it is petrol with a bit of diethyl-ether and ethanol?

[jeffro ra28]

meh, i just read the label one day and it said "contains ether". My point was totally sarcastic and had no real meaning.....lol

[jeffro ra28]

Chris, after YOU read the information in your 1970 resto thread.

I suggest you go down to repco/supercheap. Buy yourself some NGK heat range 5 plugs. Throw them in your engine and give them a go.

The plugs in the engine are probably fouled due to all the fucking around , litres of fuel thrown down the carb, and left over residue from your wet compression tests and sitting for so long etc.

Start fresh by
1:removing the current plugs
2: cranking engine for a while to blow out crud
3: install a HOT!!! set of plugs to get it going and burn out any excess oil/fuel in cylinders and runners
4: Get engine warm then possibly replace with NEW or cleaned safer colder plug suited to the 3t's running conditions/compression ratio etc.

[oldcorollas]

yeah ive done all the timing & electrical side of it as im getting a strong spark & it fires when i play with the choke then dies
it only fires when i open the choke, im thinking that its to rich & that when i open it a little bit its getting close to the right fuel to air mixture & therefore it fires.

only fires with choke on means you are restricting air and adding more fuel.
ie, not enough fuel to run

in the rebuild kit i got it says 1 1/2 turns out
BUT in the manual it says 2 5/8 turns out

who cares, set it at what WORKS.

i moved all the leads counter clock wise 1 post & cranked it & it backfires out the carby so i now that they are all right(moved then back to normal)

why would you do that? put crank pulley to TDC mark, rotor in dizzy should be pointing at cylinder 1 or cylinder 4, depending on where the valves are.

there is only 1 vacum hose attached atm as i dont know where all the rest go.

wtf? so you have hoses hanging off the manifold and carby not going anywhere? PLUG THOSE FUCKERS UP or find out where they go.
at least attach the brake booster and the dizzy advance hoses.

have you got a manual? have you looked at the pictures?

When i close the choke it is to rich
so thats why when i open the chock it fires as it must be getting close to the right ratio.
IT ONLY FIRES WHEN I OPEN THE CHOKE THERFORE THE PROBLEM IS WITH THE FUEL SIDE OF THINGS

OR, when you close the choke, because you have fuckoff massive airleaks from unplugged hoses, you arestopping any air going in thru the carby, and it all goes in via loose hoses, so it is mega LEAN.....
ffs....

any way im thinking water in the fuel as there cant be much more
so im going to buy get a full jery car of fuel & run a hose to the mechanical pump & try then
that will rule out the pump & the fuel
then it must be carby related
as i sprayed carby cleaner down it today while cranking & it started firing continuosly but not fast enough to start

i guess you only wrote this 4 days ago, but it feels like an eternity by the number of posts.. just fucken do this already. drain the fuel out of the frickin tank. the fuel is probably shit.

ignition timing is right as i can spray carby cleaner down the throat & today i day it firing continously (but not running for a few seconds then back to cranking

fuel problem.

i just rebuit the carby myself & down it exactly as the manual says

i hope you did it right.

& when number 1 is at tdc ( intake valve closes & then half a turn) until timing marks line up the dizzy is pointing at number 1 spark plug lead on the top of the dizzy
then 1342 clock wise around the dizzy

well, at least that sounds promising

the dizzy was max retarted (as far clock wise as it could go)
& i slowely turned it anti clock wise to advance it & nothing
it looks right where it was as the rotor button had just started contacting the spark lead point in the top of the dizzy when the engine is at tdc

turn the engine the correct way and stop at 10deg before TDC. the points should juuuust be starting to open. if they are closed at 15deg BTDC and open at 5deg BTDC then static timing is ok enough. a bit more timing won7t kill it at idle, so 10-15 is ok.

when it fires it shakes & speeds up for a second, when i spray carby cleaner down it it fires continously for about 5 seconds & when i stop it goes back to cranking

again, no fuel getting from carby to engine. wind the freekin idle mixture screw way out, then work backwards to find good spot.
have you moved the throttle stop position to hold the butterfly open more? like 2mm? do that NOW

no fuel = no start BUT
no air thru carby = no fuel. so make sure it is gettign air, (but not from loose hoses) and then make sure it is getting fuel...

where does the hose from the inlet manifold (near the osf strut tower) go as ive got it going in the top of the back of rocker cover. could explain the whitesh liquid (petrol & oil)

there are two big hoses from manifold. the bigger one (maybe 10mm round? maybe more?) usualyl goes from one of the runners, to the brake booster. this MUST be on the brake booster or it will nto start.
the second is a smaller hose and goes to the rocker cover. often it will be from a plate below the carby.

if in doubt PLUG UP BOTH HOSES. if the brake booster hose is going to the rocker cover, then you are sucking air from rocker cover and you GET NO FUEL INTO ENGINE

olug gap looks good, spark seems good, timing.. who knows

i think i was right last week when i said the fuel was stale ill find out this weekend, by connecting the mechanical pump up into a jerry can & cleaning out the carby with new fuel, blocking all vaccum hoses, setting ignition timing with light & then jump starting it.
if it doesnt start then the fuel, pump, carby, ignition timing, vaccum hoses & electrical side of it MUST BE RIGHT
if it doesnt start then a can of aero start will see if it is fuel related


yes but.. it still doesn't rule otu other problems. if it DOES start, then all those systems are ok ;9
if it doesn7t start then something is still farked. you know it starts if you spray shit down carby, so it MUST be fuel related.


so in summary (so you can start engine and close this thread )

FIRST: CHECK TIMING WITH TIMING LIGHT. set it to 10-15deg.
SECOND: BLOCK ALL HOSES unless you are 100% sure they are correct. DO NOT confuse the rocker cover and brake booster hoses. if you do the car WILL NOT START.
THIRD: RESET THE THROTTLE STOP POSITION ont he carby. also wind out the idle mixture screw to like 4 or 5 turns. this will give you air and fuel IF the carby jets are not blocked.
FOURTH: NOW and only now, TRY WITH NEW FUEL. either by draining tank and putting new fuel in, or having elec pump suck from jerry can etc.... just use the elec fuel pump, no need to hook up mechanical.
first, open up carby and suck out the old shit fuel. this will save some time. then run elec fuel pump, while sucking new fuel, and spitting old fuel into bucket.

later, you can slowly mix old fuel into new fuel, so it is not totally wasted.



anyway, do them in order. if the engine systems aren7t right, ie, massive air leaks from hoses hooke dup wrong, or timing way off, then it WILL NOT START regardless of fuel, however, you have shown fuel is a problem.
check the other systems first and THEN try the fuel.

good luck.

[roadkill]

Hi,

Back to basics.

Things needed for engine to run
1) Timing/spark
2) fuel/air
3) compression

If you've had the engine running via external supply of fuel then it obviously is a fuel/air problem. Your timing may not be 100% right, but it at least is somewhere in the vicinity of right. That will be easier to get right after you can get it to idle (flame me everyone i don't care) You obviously have compression. Whilst not much and the engine is probably furked, there is enough to help create combustion. That brings us again back to fuel!!!!

So, either the carby jets/idle screws etc aren't right, you're sucking air in making it run lean, the fuel is cactus. I doubt the fuel is cactus as i've had fuel over 1yr old go quite fine, but it is an easy cheap test getting fuel pumping up from a jerry can. Next i would look at upping the idle jets ie screw them out to get it richer and block every single hole on the inlet manifold except for the carby. Who cares where they go, all they are doing atm is sucking air in and making it run lean - also make sure the inlet manifold bolts are tight and there are no cracks in it!!!! Next, try and start it again but don't bother until the fuel in has been changed, the holes are all blocked etc etc. Make sure water and oil levels are good! Don;t wanna cook it!

You'll need two people now. Get someone ready to help pour fuel in at a steady rate acting as a carby fuel supply to at least get it started. 2lt coke bottle with hole in the lid should do. Once you get it started (which you've said has happened) then adjust your timing (even by ear) to let it rev decently but keep the throttle open at least a bit so it's about 2k revs. Try and see what happens when your friend stops pouring fuel in. If it stalls then i'd say you stuffed up something in the carby. If it keeps running but not on all 4 then just go get another engine as it will be furked. They can run a bit rough after sitting for a bit, this can be cos the valve springs may be stuffed ie not enough tension on the valves to make them seat properly and being that 2 and 3 are low on comp it wouldn't surprise me if that were the case.

Go spend some big dollars and get a running 2t. Pretty sure they give them away these days. I know i'll be giving mine away when 18rg goes in. GOOD LUCK

Oh yeah, gotta say too. Quit being a whiny bitch about this all and just DO what people are recommending, then come back with results. Diagnostic sequences only work when they are actually followed!!! Old carby engines aren't that hard to run!!!

bEn

[Born-Enthusiast]

uh the KM I have no idea I got it off a mate who got it off a mate etc etc so you got me there. you've already got a carby and manifold so your all good there as it don't have one I took mine off and sold it. the head is as it come as far as I know and it runs just needs a tune cause I never tuned it when I used it as a run around it was just till i fixed my engine. Other then that it's a bit dirty as all old engines are so prob has a leak or two somewhere. But yeah runs fine for what it is mate.

it was actually in the T18's apparently heres a little info on it:
The 1770 cc 13T-U was produced from 1977 through 1982. It produces 95 hp (71 kW) at 5400 RPM and 109 ft·lbf (147 N·m) at 3400 RPM.

Applications:

* Toyota Corolla T-18


a bit more here kinda doubles up a bit
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...o/engcodes.htm

[Cob604]

hey guys

thx heaps for the help.

there is som much info just put up ill try it then get back on here with the results.
Ill follow the steps oldcorollas recommended & everyone else

roadkill- ive never got this engine running, ive only had it firing for about 5 seconds.

ive bought some aero start ect, so it has to go this weekend

anyway ive got a few questions
*as the engine compression is really low & ive just done the wet compression test (eg little oil in cylinders) can i try to start it with the oil in it, as it will provide a temporary sealer for the piston rings, & if i right more compression means more suction, more chance of sucking fuel down it
*should i use aerostart to get it running after following all the steps, or just run it on the new fuel

thx heaps guys

on sunday its either doing to go bang, be attacked by a hammer or start, either way ill be happy as it needs a new clutch so ive lined up a new 2tc in a few weeks.

thx

[Cob604]

hey guys ive got a bit of time ill try to answer a few questions

GasedT18- atm since ive got the 1ggze sitting in the other car all i want is a engine for about 1/2 a year so i can get the 1ggze running ect & slowely upgrade the ta23 each weekend to hadle the 1ggze.
but the temp motor needs to be reliable, but not cost alot.
Yeah i put the extractors back on on sunday as i dont want fire in my engine bay. but i need to weld the rest of the exhaust on or put some exhaust cement on it (all in the car but needs to be joined at the end of extractors)
i can try to get the manual for a 4a-c to borrow over the weekend if we have it as toyota. if not ive got a flowchart sort of thing to find out exactly what is wrong with the fuel side of the car. Where is the link to your problem.
Ive got a 3t carby on it atm
thx

oldcorollas- yeah but i bought a can of aero start as its only $10 & it might help.
How did i rule out stale fuel? as ive only found out how to recognise it 2 days ago.
the motor is rooted but as long a it can pass rego & last 1/2 a year.

*on monday it didnt fire at all while it was moving: mixture screw, throttle, dizzy or choke.
*yeah i moved all the leads back 1 as th first thing everyon said was is you dizzy right, & i had to make sure once & for all (even after doing it the right way)
*ive got 2 manuals (chiltons, not genuine toyota) but nothing on vaccum hoses, ive searched google & nothing to reference off.
I see what you are saying & that could be a big problem as its sucking air throught the vacuum hoses instead of out the carby
* yeah i dont have time through the week so it all happens on te weekend.
* throttle stop position is the first thing on saturday.

roadkill- yeah ive never had engine running only firing for about 5 seconds of carby cleaner
im missing a dip stick so ive got about 3.5L of oil & no coolant atm as i need it to start for even 3 seconds before i put it all back together. (see last paragraph)

jeffro ra28- weve got an efi service kit at work in which you hook a hose & pressure guage (in one) into the fuel system & run a can of efi cleaner for the injectors so i could always make a longer one of those & sit it in the passenger seat & have a pile of aero start or something. any one asks its nos


i really appreciate the help & time you all have/are spent by going into so much detail of how to start it & thx for teaching me alot along the way
yeah guys, sorry for not being able to try your reccomendations atm, every week day when ever im at home its pitch black & juggling everything, i dont have time for much throught the week, when im getting a few hours of sleep each night. so its all going to happen on the weekend, when i can handle being confused/ doub founded
thx

[Cob604]

hey guys

ive got presents for all your time & effort you all have spent helping me

http://www.themp3host.com/uploads/8f3d85a5d6.mp3
http://www.themp3host.com/uploads/94cbdd8cc5.mp3
http://www.themp3host.com/uploads/64d60a00ad.mp3

(ill upload video once i can convert it)
now i just have to adjust valve clearances & tune it up. & do a full maintance proccedure acording to manual

one last thing, the car is hard to start on fuel, but 1 spray of aerostart & it starts fine. then it runs on fuel perferctly, any ideas

thx heaps

[oldcorollas]

accel pump not working or spraying too much

[jeffro ra28]

what was the culprit/s to it not starting in the first place?

Glad to here you got it going.