I need YOUR help!!!

[oldeskewltoy]

I need your help NOW...........

You've seen the photos..... here are the last ones you all have been expecting...... Note the original MX5 one piece bell housing(in background) in upper left view.



What you see above is an Aisin Industries AZ6, with a bell from a rwd 4AGE attached!!! The photo below is the internal section PRIOR to 25 hours of hand work to make sure the gearbox works as designed!!!




Over the past 2 years I've been doggedly pursuing what I believe to be the BEST drivetrain upgrade ever conceived for the AE86. You've read the threads.... here they are if you haven't had a chance yet....

http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21207
http://www.hachiroku.net/forums/showthread.php?t=820
http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=830


The design is done.... All the issues have been overcome one way or another: 1) bell adapter, 2) one piece input shaft, 3) overcoming electronic to mechanical speedometer drive.

To this point this project has cost $10,000(USD). You now see the results of that investment.

Pineapple Racing and Oldeskewltoy have "delivered" what we promised, an entirely NEW drivetrain option that can support twice the torque load of a stock 4AGE, AND delivery better fuel mileage!

Now... here is what I NEED from you....... WE need to know this interests you!!!

Does it?? About a year ago, in some of the depths of this project, I asked for people to email Pineapple Racing to express their interest in this project, to convey to Rob that this is a worthwhile project. I posted this request for emails in 3 or 4 AE86/4AGE forums, with a combined active membership in excess of 5000 (conservative estimate).

Rob got a total of 6 RESPONSES..... If I go back and count(in the above forum posts) all the people who praised this idea* and the arduous task we had been pursuing it adds up to at least 50 of you! * - many saying you were saving for its completion

To put this into production we need to KNOW that there is a desire to see this succeed! We need to KNOW, that this would be a REAL option for you!

As of now (6 respondents) it makes NO sense to finish this project if there are only 6 interested parties WORLD WIDE.....

We've delivered... now it’s your turn!!!


Email Rob.... [email protected] Tell him what you’ve told me!!!!!!!!

[river]

Hi,

I guess the first thing someone will ask is.... how much will it cost them?

seeyuzz
river

[Billzilla]

Wouldn't it be easier & cheaper to modify the existing bell housing?

[rob]

Hi,

I guess the first thing someone will ask is.... how much will it cost them?

seeyuzz
river

also i would like to know the cost of this in terms of "what conversion could i have done for the price of this"

thanks

[PlacentaJuan]

subscribes for lulz

[oldeskewltoy]

Cost will be about $1400 (USD) for the adapter and the input shaft. The speedo drive unit will run $300 more.

Bill, There has been one such mod I know of...


Each would have to be set in a jig and custom made. Each would need a mixture of stock, and\or custom clutch bits. Note the mixed system on the photo above....

As parts, these can be shipped around the world. And as parts... you don't need a fabricator to build it for you. A decent mechanic should be able to assembly this.


If you have an interest to see this available, send us an email... [email protected]

[ddeane]

Gidday

I think that I have this - correct but the MX5 box is an asian box of the same type that is fitted to Beams ans other Lexus variants, Honday S2000, Nissan SX200, etc, a J160. A number of now have fitted these behind 1G engines, and I know at least 2 behind 4A engines with a simple adaptor. This thread provides a linkage to the adaptor that Chuck (Landwehr) made to connect to his 20V. http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3472


Cheers Craig

[af300e]

Where does the shifter end up? From memory standard t50 shifter is approx 670mm from the engine block, that setup looks at least 800mm.

I might be missing something but is there a problem with the W5* series boxes? I mean, for a 4age, what is the reason for the upgrade (other than 6 speed and spare money)

[oldeskewltoy]

I know of Chuck's method. This one doesn't require any special bits outside the adapter and shaft

Depends on which AZ6.... find one from an RX8, and the shifter will come through at the hand brake well, making it nearly a perfect fit in the hand.

[oldeskewltoy]

Concerning AZ6 longevity.... The only ones I know who are not happy are SOME of the S15 owners, because they have found ways to break them*. Concerning wear issues, I'd inquire with a miata board/forum. * Silvia GTR folks running 276 REPORTED hp and 202 REPORTED #-ft of torque

Right now it ISN'T for sale.... YET

There is $10,000 into it now.... that is the design of the 2 pieces(bell and shaft), and the contruction of the bell. To put this into a small production run(about 25 kits), it will require an additional....

$15,000!!!!!!!!

Now do you see why I want to know if YOU like it??? There is NO reason to invest $15,000 MORE if no one wants one!

This isn't about the design and its purpose anymore...

This is about if there is enough demand to invest $15000 into making 25 kit...........

[oldcorollas]

maybe you should seriously be looking at the japanese market perhaps??

in aus, people may not really feel like paying that much for an adaptor, when they can get a box that will survive and do the job for 20% of the cost. or make up an adaptor plate that looks bodge, but works, for 10% of the cost.
of course that is not a 6 speed, and maybe the ratios aren't perfect, but most people don't care that much. they just want a box that doesn't break (reason for upgrading box usually)
if they don't like stock ratios, they get new ratios made up for racing, and then 1st gear for parking is no longer an issue...

as you would know better than me, america loves (needs?) kits, and the market is 10 times the size of Aus (well.. ignoring that many people go "domestic" instead of jap)...

japan is half population of US, but there are probably fewer old cars here, and while there are still hachirokus driving around and (somewhat) racing, i have no idea if people really want to fit 6 speeds.. that there is no offering from any of the aftermarket people here already to fit a 6 speed (despite large catalogues forAE86 stuff), means there is either no market, or not enough for them to develop it.. that doesn't mean it is not big enough to pay back your development tho.

there was a box exactly like the other you posted, with the welded bellhousing, that sat on yahoo for months and months, and i can't remember it selling... and it was priced similar or maybe less than your kit (iirc. or maybe a little more?)
altezza 6 speeds are going for about US$800-1000 on yahoo atm.. will people pay another $1400 on top to fit to a 4AG?


so anyway, of that $25000, (going by population), $1300 from aus, $7700 from japan, and the remaining $16K from US market....


so i guess the questions are... does it work with only the MX5 box? or with the nissan or with the altezza box?
is it suitable for other cars... not everyone has an AE86..
how durable is the new input shaft? what if they go bang? are the boxes strong enough to take the punishment of someone who is going to the effort of fitting a 6 speed for the ratios... ie, flogging it...

also, why would someone fit a small bellhousing, when they could have an adaptor plate and run a larger flywheel and clutch? 200 or 212mm is not exactly huge, and custom clutches and friction plates are very easy these days... many clutch places (at least in aus) will fit whatever centre to whatever friction plates, and a custom flywheel is only about $600 or so(?) for alloy with steel inlay.
custom clutch and flywheel is the least of worries when it comes to gearboxes and mix n match

not trying to poo your idea, just thinking out loud.
i think you have a great engineering solution, but for a very very small market.. ie, those with AE86's.. that still have 4AG's... that want a 6 speed box... AND have anough money to spend US$2000-2500 on a gearbox.

i do wonder with this project and the twinscrew, how much market research was done beforehand, to see if there was a business case...

but anyway, good luck
if it was me, i'd go the $50 adaptor, and machine off some of the bellhousing/adaptor to get the input shaft in right depth. or go the whole hog and weld bellhousings.
but i'm a cheap arse.... and i will use a W box anyway..

[oldeskewltoy]

oldcorollas - thinking outloud is useful... no poo poo for honest fair questions.

1) it sould be able to be used in any rwd "A" engine application. Mass of the car is the AZ6s biggest enemy.

2) I KNOW the internals are almost identical with the Mazda uses, the input shaft shouldn't be an issue here.... the gear ratios only differ on one gear. I am making an assumption that the input shaft will fit the S15 and SXE10 AZ6.

Market Research....... hahahahahahahahahahaha... I fully admit this is a labor of love... But a good idea is still a good idea......

I post in this forum... because it has some of the most open minded Toyota people as members.... it may only be based "down unda" but its influence is far reaching

[Joshstix]

It's a beautiful part and I think you've done some great work.

I think though, that a lot of people running 4A's in their sprinters still will not be in a position to spend the money, although they will all say they're super interested to start with .

To me I look at it as yeah it's a really nice gearbox but it's a lot of money to adapt it to a rough old motor. I can't help but think it would be a better option to swap it in as a unit with the engine it came with either the BP or a Altezza 3S-GE.

[af300e]

It's a beautiful part and I think you've done some great work.

I think though, that a lot of people running 4A's in their sprinters still will not be in a position to spend the money, although they will all say they're super interested to start with .

To me I look at it as yeah it's a really nice gearbox but it's a lot of money to adapt it to a rough old motor. I can't help but think it would be a better option to swap it in as a unit with the engine it came with either the BP or a Altezza 3S-GE.

Agreed, awesome work but there just aren't enough people racing ae86's and racing is really the only use that would justify that sort of money. At AU$5000 inc box, it will constitute 50% or more of the value of the vast majority of street sprinters. Plus if the stick is in the handbrake well, it's too far back unless you fit a race pedal box (another $1500 inc masters) and move the seat right back. Again, largely these are race car only mods.

W5* series boxes are good enough and cheap, and that will be your biggest hurdle.

This is only my opinion, I'm happy to edit (delete) this post if you feel it hurts your chances of sales.

[oldcorollas]

how has it cost $10,000 so far? lots of CNC time? paying someone to program it etc?
i know chunks of alloy are not cheap, and neither is machine time, but..
(edit: just out of curiosity!)