Sump stuck - any ideas?

[joey]

I had the 2 washers behind the intake cam bolt on my 2tg fall down the timing chain crevis when taking off the head and i heard them hit the sump. Figure i better get them out now why i have time and also because the gasket was leaking so took out all the bolts holding it in (aswell as the ones under the gearbox to block mounts) and jacked up the gearbox to give it room to come off but the mofo is stuck on there. Tried wiggling it, prying at it with a flat head screwdriver (the tip of it snapped off whilst trying to pry it off ) and going along the edge of it with a blade to try and loosen some of the super gasket goop thats on there but it just wont budge!
Anyone got any ideas on how i can get it off, i really dont wanna have to take the whole block out just to get this farker off, i only have minimal space to leverage things at it with aswell so its not like i can get a get an actual good angle on the thing.
Any idea of what im working with:


Any idea appreciated, Cheer, Joe

[NeoNasty]

Triple check that you have EVERY bolt out of the sump.

Get a wide blade screw driver. Wide as you can. Edge it between the 2 surfaces and apply some pressure.

To help, get a block of flat wood and hold it against the side of the sump and give it a few short sharp wacks.

Let us know how you go.

[LeeRoy]

Id try with a spatula or a razor blade also and try and slide it between the mating surfaces to cut away any goo that might be still holding them together.

What about a mechanic's magnet nut pick pick up tool thingy? Would save you taking the sump off.

[Mos]

The sump is effectively glued onto the bottom of the block. This edge is maybe 10-15mm wide and maybe 1m in perimeter. You can't expect that shoving a 10mm wide screwdriver in one spot will cause the remaining 99cm to magically separate.

Removing a sump without bending it (too much) is a straighforward process but can be time consuming. You essentially have to cut or allow all the silastic to tear. This is commonly done with a combination of prying and cutting. The factory manual will suggest an SST (basically a thin metal plate) that you hammer in, then hammer around.

Jamming a screwdriver in there will usually let you cut the full width of the silastic in the close vicinity of said screwdriver. This then allows you to move the screwdriver (or use a second one) a little bit further along and cutting the next small amount. You proceed along the perimeter of the sump by gently prying and cutting until you get most of the way around.

Slow and gentle, not bigger and more force....

Mos.

[MitchE]

we used a hard paint scraper and a block of wood, the guy that ownd the car was uder it working the paint scaper in while i was forcing it down until the silastic tore enough to basically pull it out.
but that is basically what Mos said mught be time to call in a vavour from a mate and/or buy a couple of 6 packs to make the job quicker.
mitch

[IN 05 NT]

Slow and gentle, not bigger and more force....

Mos.

hmmmm, that might be the problem with the ladiez

[allencr]

Washers between the timing chain & sprocket - big potential problem!
Washers in the bottom of the sump - no potential problem at all.
I wouldn't bother since the other reason, a leak, looks minimal & normal - even if it's the sump and not from somewhere else like usual.

[joey]

Triple check that you have EVERY bolt out of the sump.

Get a wide blade screw driver. Wide as you can. Edge it between the 2 surfaces and apply some pressure.

To help, get a block of flat wood and hold it against the side of the sump and give it a few short sharp wacks.

Let us know how you go.

Yeah i tried having a rag up against it and giving it a few sharp blows with the hammer, but didnt really do anything. Tried using the razor blade again yesterday, its in a position where i can only probably slice around a quater of the sump because engine mounts and other stuff being in the way and not being able to apply any force to it. Its the same with the paint scraper (although it is a good idea), i can only really get in a few selected positions to apply any force to it.
Yeah the mechanics magnet thing was my first weapon of choice when it fell down there, the tip of it is a tad too fat and i cant really get beyond halfway down the opening. The head is off now tho so the whole chain is pretty much exposed and i still cant see either of them so it has to be in the sump, but want to be 100% sure otherwise i wont sleep good at night
I'll have another go at it monday when im back home, slowly trying to move said paint scraper or flat head around sump and using the razor to try and cut away the goo. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
Cheers guys, Joey

[MitchE]

once you get something in there even a little bit downward preasure goes along way just gotta break the seal.
thaught of taking some stuff out of the engine bay where possible?
mitch

[grotty100]

Are there baffles in the sump? If not, use a strong magnet and "stroke" from the fornt of the sump towards the drain plug.

Or perhaps a fishing rod with a bolt attached to the end of the line.....................

[joey]

Are there baffles in the sump? If not, use a strong magnet and "stroke" from the fornt of the sump towards the drain plug.

Or perhaps a fishing rod with a bolt attached to the end of the line.....................

Nah its not a baffled sump. Haha i thought i might be able to get away with using a magnet or something to draw it towards the drain hole like you have said when they first dropped down there, but the 2 washers are just a tad bigger than the hole, so i cant get em out that way either

[litldv8]

with the head off there are only a couple more bolts and the block is out

[grotty100]

Hey Joey, Do you have compressed air? If so try blowing in the gap whilst you run around it with a blade/scraper/whathaveyou.
Grotty.

[ian]

joey
bite the bullitt ,take the lot out
also while its out you can spray the engine bay cross member etc , as well as re- sealing the sump properly cos trying to lever the sump off will distort it and will be a real bastard to reseal properly again
ian

[joey]

Managed to get the bugger off without taking the block out. I probably would have just taken the block out earlier but i dont have a hoist or anything so it would make it very difficult to manouver around. The ol' paint scraper + hammer around it worked, had to take off the swaybar and get the oil pickup out with the sump on which was a little difficult but no too bad. One of the washers was in the sump along with some metal shavings but didnt seem anything major. I was able to get the second washer out of the timing chain hole from beneath it, luckily i didnt just let it go and not take off the sump.
Thanks for all your ideas guys, didnt think it would be such a pain to get such a simple thing off.
Cheers, Joey