Ke70 4kc->5ke?

[JetspeedCamry]

My next door neighbour and I are thinking of changing the motor in his KE70. It's an '84 model with a 4-speed manual (not sure what gbox code that is). Anyways, the 4KC is getting a bit tired, and provided the body holds together rust wise, we will pop a new heart into it.
Now, researching, i found an easy bolt in option, the 5K-E. electronic ignition, 200cc more displacment. Does anyone know much about the 5K motor and how its different from a 4K performance wise?
He is 60 odd years old, and a full fledged 4AGE car is out of the question, as im sure that conversion would require brakes and suspension work also, which he doesn't want to do. This is a simple thing we are trying to do just to get some more zip and life into the car.
I have been told the 5K is quite a bit more torquey than the 4K, how about fuel economy? I also saw theres a 7K, is that viable also? Trying to keep it a K series so theres no other mods required as such. (Although i'd love to pop an EFI 4A in there, i don't think he's want to waste the money).

Cheers for any help
Kurt

[oldcorollas]

there's a 5KE?
i i thought there was only 4KE and 7KE? does it have long curved intakes and TB above the rocker cover? it could also be good to stick in a megasquirt, as the 4KE injection ECU is a bit primitive.. the 7KE would be much better ECU wise

5K is torquey enough to warrant putting it in over a 4K. with a mild cam, that will be even better.
fuel economy depends on driving style etc....and how it is tuned etc (ie, 4KE running a 5K with injection etc?)

7KE will be better for torque etc, but they are low down torque from factory.. would need maybe cam and retuning to get more out of it? or maybe it would be enough.
engine would sit higher, need mods to engine mounts etc to fit. and be a lot more exxy.

i'd go the 5K with 7KE injection manifold and a megasquirt

[JetspeedCamry]

Ah must have been a 5K carby then..but with electronic ignition. I didnt see the motor so no idea on what it looks like!
Theres a few around here atm. What vehicle does the 7K come in? Same sorta van stuff?
The idea of a 5K with 7K efi gear and ecu sounds very interesting. I wonder how hard it would be to make it all work.
Does a 5K bolt in place of the 4K with minimal fuss?
He is a very sedate driver, rarely taking the little 4K over 3000rpm...but yeah, some sort of torque increase would be nice for daily driving as it's quite lacking atm up a hill. Plus the car is pristine and puttn a new heart in it would be so much better than buying a bland new car.

[.:2DR-FTU:.]

hey mate. I have also looked into something like this about 2months ago for a mate with a 3k in his ke20. The 7k is from a lite ace van. Apparently loads of torque, but hard to come by. I was quoted 1400! The 5k is also in the same boat, not worth the money in my opinion, maybe get a 4k which is a bit fresher and maybe put a slightly bigger carby on it with an adaptor plate. Is the 4k your neighbour has low on compression, or just generally gutless? Maybe take it down to get the carby redone?

[rob]

id just go with the 7K-E from a liteace as long as there is no hassle with registration from the capacity changes

why bother sourcing 2 engines swapping bits and pieces? as long as u can register it just use the 7K

you will need to run a EFI fuel system, ie lift pump surge tank and hi pressure fuel pump otherwise i doubt it would be a very complicated conversion at all as long as you are both mechanically minded and are happy to learn to read wiring diagrams

while your there grab a 5 speed gearbox as well

[oldcorollas]

7K is from a Townace van actually, up to early 2000's.

5K is 4K block with larger bores. it will botl in with no probs and should bolt up to exhaust with no issues either

if he is not taking it over 3Krpm, then maybe a stock duration cam with bigger lift would be good but with aggressive ramp rates

7KE gear onto 4K is not very difficult at all. the runners are almost perfectly suited to a large port head (30mm diameter), and 5K can be ported to that, or at least blend the ports to that size.
the MS takes soem stuffing around, you will need fuel pump (in tank pump from AE86? or modded AE92 bracket and pump?) and will need wiring up etc.. so yeah a bit of stuffing around.
but for not high revs, the 5K with stock carby will be fine.

7K is more hassle as the engine sits higher, may need exhaust mods as the extractors sit higher etc... plus all the hassle of swapping in the electicals and fuel stuff..


gearbox is K40... as Rob said, get a K50.. 5 speed is nicer for highway.

for a bolt n go approach, i'd go the 5K

[dfunkt]

i have a ke20. i put in a 5k with an elec dizzy about 6 months ago. it was a direct bolt in.
the only custom work i did was the 2 power wires for the dizzy. i used the alternator from the 3k, as the one that came with the 5k had a different plug.

[JetspeedCamry]

.:2DR-FTU:.: It may very well be low on compression, but i've never driven a fresh 4K so i can't really compare.

Some awesome info here, thankyou very much for the pointers, i'll be sure to have some discussion with him tonight about it all.

dfunkt..how did you find performance after the conversion?

[dfunkt]

the 3k i had was very stock, a bit tired and burning a lil oil.
the 5k has a (suspected) BHG with extractors, possible cam work but unsure.

i drove it (the 5k) while it was in a ke35 coupe for a week, after it had been sitting in a paddock for 6 months or so. it felt so much more powerful than the 4k i had in my other coupe.

when i put the 5k into my ke20, the seat-of-my-pants gauge moved quite a long way. the 5k just wants to keep pulling you along, the low down torque is great. i haven't noticed any change in fuel consumption between the 3k and 5k either. both get around 10L/100kms with a variety of spirited and highway drives.

the 5k has around 10 HP and 18 lb-ft more than a 4k when new. while it isn't much, they don't have much to start with, so you do notice the increase.

pricewise, i'm sure your neighbour could pick up another 4k for next to nothing. a 5k should realistically cost anywhere between $300 (what i paid) and $700 from a wrecker.

[JetspeedCamry]

Sweet, thanks for that.

Time to write some stuff up on the drawing board!

[chris22780]

7K will not fit without either modifying the sump or the cross member, as they're a different sump to the rest of the K series

[cambelt]

3K has the best fuel economy of them all , well a 24010 headed one anyway.
Dave