BEAMS 3S build up... not NA

[Celica RA45]

you will find the 2j pistons are very similar to the gen 2 and 3 3sge motors and valve angles will be a problem as they are different on the beams as inlet is stood up to get huge lift and cam pulleys are only 5mm apart compared to gen 3 25mm apart

[The Real Roadrunner]

so flycutting the forgies ain't an option? they look similar in shape and have the right pin hieght im chasing.

ill measure the centres now and see if i can work out the valve angle off that.

cheers
linden

[JustenGT8]

Watching with interest. I'm a big fan of high comp turbos as is well known but for 300rwkw you'll be driving that turbo pretty hard boost wise? well over 20psi? What sort of fuel are you looking to run?

[The Real Roadrunner]

well considering boost is just a measurement of restriction it could be done at varying boosts by using different turbine housings, but they will all deliver the power in a different way so ill probly use a .63 or .82 as i want it on boost as early as possible.

should be able to see that figure on 20psi if i get it a "right" but id say i won't and it will probly need 24-25 to get the required numbers, basically if it torches tires in 5th gear like the old motor did ill be happy as i mofo (and no it aint going to be a driftcar, just way overpowered )

cheers
linden

[The Real Roadrunner]

missed the fuel bit, PULP warrior over here dude (yes i like making my life hard)
too much money to buy MS109 or similar to go have fun and ive made that power on PULP out of a 2L SR20 b4 and they are shit in the head department (not to mention every other part)

cheers
linden

[abently]

Are the factory Pistons forged / semi forged ? If so, measure the crown thickness ? You can go as low as 6mm, so if there's room to shave it, then do so. Is the factory Head gasket 0.8mm ? Again if so, even better as 1.2mm is better suited to FI. (Aka Cometic MLS)

All you really need to do is bring the static CR down to 10-10.5:1. What are the Factory cranking compression numbers ? 200psi is a repeatable setup on 98Ron Fuel with 300+ Kw atw.

Whats the quality of the factory connecting rods ? Forged or cast ?

600Bhp is uncharted territory on stock Evo7+ bottom-ends. You will be at the limit keeping it all stock with minor mods such as ARP hardware throughout etc but assuming you have a Knock detection setup, I don't see the value in over-Engineering the setup.

[JustenGT8]

Maybe i should have said 'pressure ratio' either way be interesting to watch the balancing act of power, boost and comp ratio

[The Real Roadrunner]

Are the factory Pistons forged / semi forged ? If so, measure the crown thickness ? You can go as low as 6mm, so if there's room to shave it, then do so. Is the factory Head gasket 0.8mm ? Again if so, even better as 1.2mm is better suited to FI. (Aka Cometic MLS)

All you really need to do is bring the static CR down to 10-10.5:1. What are the Factory cranking compression numbers ? 200psi is a repeatable setup on 98Ron Fuel with 300+ Kw atw.

Whats the quality of the factory connecting rods ? Forged or cast ?

600Bhp is uncharted territory on stock Evo7+ bottom-ends. You will be at the limit keeping it all stock with minor mods such as ARP hardware throughout etc but assuming you have a Knock detection setup, I don't see the value in over-Engineering the setup.

PS if you have no idea about what im thinking of building and are no smarter than a goldfish please dont post, i only want factual info or technical knowledge of the above engines

.
you obviously didn't read this.

im not planning on using factory pistons or rods (unless its the 205 stuff and they are cast piston / forged rod)
when did i talk about it making 600hp? no its not an evo.
im dropping the comp to what i feel is suitable for the engines needs so factory cranking pressure makes no difference (and i can change the dynamic comp with Dual VVTi and Boost)
please go make irrelevant posts somewhere else irrelevant,

thanx
linden

[oldcorollas]

Linden, just played some numbers..
needing 350-380kw at crank with 0.9-0.95 effective VE (multiplied by boost)..

to see what boost is needed at what rpm to make those killahwatt numbers...

whatcha think? what rpm are you aiming for?

[abently]

300rwKw is 500Bhp........

Turbo 9.0:1 static CR's is old news, so your claim to fame will be nothing.

I'll leave you to it though.

[oldcorollas]

abently, perhaps you would get a better reception if you explain your claims.. rather than abruptly stating it as fact with no backup whatsoever...

why do you say you can shave to 6mm on piston? where on piston? centre or edges?

why do you say that 1.2mm headgasket is better? what about squish/quench/etc

10.5:1 compression ratio with 30psi on 98octane fuel? are you sure?

why are you confident that the cranking compression pressure is indicative of events at 7000-9000rpm with 20-30psi of boost?

your last statement is KMobscuresque.. can you try to explain your intentions?

[The Real Roadrunner]

Abently,
yes 500hp@flywheel is the goal, not 600hp like you were talking.
9.5CR is what i would like and since when was i claiming to be doing anything new? its going in my daily driver FFS.
1.2mm gasket is too thick i want to run a 0.8 MLS to make sure there is less things to go wrong (thick gaskets are old news dude)
PULP fuel is the reason im not going higher with the comp or thicker with the gasket as i want to be able to run as much boost as i need to make the numbers and no more than that.
BTW i have built a couple of decent cars b4
1mm clearance between the crown and head is my preference.

OC,
RPM will be dictated by engines specs ie: Stroke length and Rod Ratio so i kinda have to settle on a setup b4 i can work out what will be required.
still not sure on piston speeds that ill need to stay below but that is probly also dictated by weight of the reciprocating components.

8200rpm would probly be the most id rev it to (reliability remember) but ill work that out on the dyno to find out when boost starts to drop or the torque drops off too much.

still all in the planning stages at the moment so i have room to move with measurements etc.

im really tempted to use the 5S block due to the fact that its stronger but not sure if i want to go to all the trouble of retrofitting all the components.

cheers
linden

[The Real Roadrunner]

Linden, just played some numbers..
needing 350-380kw at crank with 0.9-0.95 effective VE (multiplied by boost)..

to see what boost is needed at what rpm to make those killahwatt numbers...

whatcha think? what rpm are you aiming for?

well according to that graph worst case ill need 22psi but im probly going to run 25psi (maybe more) from the peak boost threshold to about 7500 and taper it back down b4 it gets to 8K to stop me from bashing it off the limiter, still not sure on anything 100% yet but ill tear it down this weekend if i get time and start sending it all off.

any chance you could run some numbers for me?
need piston speeds @8Krpm for 86-93mm strokes if possible. 138mm rod length if you need it.

cheers
linden

[oldcorollas]

sheeet.. just lost that reply
for 8000rpm

anyway.. using online calc for mean pistons speeds (doesn't take into account rod length)
stroke. speed(feet/min)
86.......4514
87.......4567
88.......4619
89.......4672
90.......4724
91.......4777
92.......4829
93.......4882


for peak speeds, using a modified calc from here (uses rod length and complex calc)
http://www.andersonperformance.net/piston22.xls

stroke. speed(feet/min)
86.......7430
87.......7524
88.......7619
89.......7714
90.......7809
91.......7904
92.......8000
93.......8095

max speeds occur at 74 and 286deg...

[dave368]

OC,

This is an area that I haven't done much research upon myself, but for those others like uneducated me, what sort of peak speeds would you normally limit yourself to for a) stock rods, b) eagle rods and c) some decent forged rods?

Cheers,
Dave