RA23/28 with KE70 steering column and rack and pinion

[stradlater]

I don't know what happened to my 20mm track issue, I would assume that I just ended up with more negative Camber.

Timbo - What did I do? You were around for it weren't you?

[timbosaurus]

I dunno mate, I wasn't that closely involved.

I suspect you just gained camber... it would only be 1 degree or so, so hardly noticeable.

And the height of the lca mounts is not noticeable either. Mainly affects roll center height, which is only visable through lca Angle.

[ando9111]

My measurements show that the ke70 front setup is about 20mm to 25mm narrower from center to center of the lca mounts on the cross member than standard ra40 so id end up with positive camber if it was negative camber i wouldn't be worried. but as far as the mount height i would think if the mount is higher than standard and the lca length unchanged this would give even more positive camber when all bolted up wouldn't it? i was thinking of welding steel to the mounting face of the cross member until it is back to standard height and then going adjustable lca to adjust camber.

[Major Clod]

Hey all,

Updating my R&P setup to use an RA60 column. Previous attempt had a bearing stuck in the end of the RA23 column, it seemed to work okay but I'd prefer something a little more .. factory as the bearing was never really secured in a satisfying way... Anyway, RA60 column install pretty straight forward.

Problem I'm having is the length of the intermediate shaft (shaft between the two unis) as the RA60 uni is quite a bit more recessed into the firewall than my previous setup so I now have a longer distance between the two uni joints.

So I've taken my two piece KE70 intermediate shaft and tapped it out easy enough. Unfortunately to reach I need to tap it out almost 60mm which is way too much - this only leaves me with about 15mm actually inserted into the second piece of the shaft, its wobbling at this point so not secure...

So, over the years of this thread:

- Has anyone had any luck sourcing any intermediate shafts (or singular pieces) longer than the KE70 setup, but still using the correct spline? How are the PS ones such as MA70 (other than spline difference) Even if its just one piece thats longer, I can mate it with part of the KE70 setup.

- Has anyone ever rotated their rack around so that spline on top of the rack is facing more towards the firewall - lessening the angle of this uni and also reducing the length required? Good or bad idea? As the rack is shaped to the crossmember on one side I guess the best way to do this is modify the crossmember, which wouldn't be too hard (it would be easier if my engine and suspension wasn't attached to it....


I've taken a bunch of photos along the way so I'll put up a bit of a how-to once I'm done.

[WDE_BDY]

Sheepers did exactly that, rotating the rack back to change uni angle. I think from memory he carefully re-filed the flat on the rack rather than changing the mounts but not 100% sure on that.

Callum

[sheepers]

yea, what he said.
i re-filed the flats on the rack to lay the input shaft back a bit, i guess about 15 degrees.
cars done about 15000K's so far with no issue.

[Major Clod]

Cool thanks for the tip guys - as you say looks like I can get a good 15 degrees out of it which will help.

Chasing up an MA70/GZ20 intermediate steering shaft as the splined half looks to be significantly longer than stock KE70 or RA60.

[Pagie84a]

Quick parts list from stock on a 28
Ke70: x member, lca's, rack, steering arms, tie rod ends, lower column
Ra2#: upper column, steering knuckles(ae86 ps for more lock)
Also is a ke70 intermediate arm suitable or has anyone found a better fit
Cheers guys

[supra2]

The intermediate arm from a ma60 supra is longer than the ra60 celica and they both use the same column and rack.

[Major Clod]

Okay, this is my exact solution for my steering setup.

Rack

KE70 Manual Rack & Crossmember, spaced down 20mm from chassis for engine clearances.

Filed and rebuilt with steel epoxy the flat portion of the cast alloy mounting point on the rack, so that its rotated approximately 10-15 degrees towards the rear of the car.


Column Housing

SA63 Column - most of the RA6X family should work - the longer upper mounting tab cut off, shortened and rewelded to match stock bolt spacing of approx 140mm.

Drilled holes into the lower portion of the shroud that attaches to the firewall, matching the existing lower mounting threads on the car. This places the shroud in a position that sits against the firewall shape nicely, so no bending is needed. It also makes the uni joint clear the chassis rails and firewall edges nicely. In this position, the upper edge of the shroud is closely tucked up against the pedal box on the firewall.

Drilled two new holes into the firewall for some upper mounting points for the shroud.


Column Shafts

Took the SA63 upper half of the column shaft, and mated it to the lower half of a KE70 shaft. This gives me a column with a uni + female spline receiver at the bottom, rather than a built in intermediate shaft as comes stock in the SA63.

Make sure you measure your original SA63 shaft before you separate it. Make up a new shaft using the above components to a similar length, fine tuning it in the actual column so that all bearings are seated well and appropriate circlips can be inserted properly.


Intermediate Shaft

Grabbed an intermediate shaft from an MA70 Supra. This is quite long, and will have a power steering spline uni at the bottom, so no good for a manual rack. You could look into replacing the uni joint and inserting the yoke from a non-power steering setup, however the universal joints are staked in so it may be a pain to align them well. That being said its a low speed application so you'd probably get it good enough at home. Hardy Spicer do sell replacement joints and the part number should be K5-A700.

I separated the MA70 intermediate shaft into two pieces, took the spline half and inserted into the universal joint half of a KE70 intermediate shaft. The MA70 splined half of the shaft is approximately 50-60mm longer than the KE70 - this worked for me. If you need an even longer setup, look at using both MA70 pieces and replace the uni joint/yoke if needed - both halves of the MA70 shaft are approx 50mm longer, so in total you could extend it out to over 100mm longer than KE70. GZ20 shaft also appears to be the same part number.

I used some Sikaflex 255 (Windscreen goop) between both parts to secure them in place as mine had a slight little bit of slop. Can also use a punch to tighten up the metal slightly where the two pieces join.


Electrical

My Celica key worked fine in the SA63 barrel - so no changes there. Simply get the plastic connector from your xA23/8 barrel and pull out the spade contacts. Make sure you note which wire is which - take a photo.

Do the same for the SA63 barrel. Take the spades from the SA63 and insert them into the xA23 plug, ensuring you match the wiring. On the SA63 barrel you'll have two extra wires - AM2 and IG2 - these won't be used, however you could attach another connector here and use this to source additional ignition power without butchering your existing wiring. You just need to run +12V into AM2 and when the ignition is on, +12V will come out of IG2.

The RA23 combination switch will bolt up to the SA63 column no problem. You'll need to cut some plastic off the rear of the SA63 column plastic covers if you want to use them, otherwise they won't clear the dash.


With the above, you'll have a nice bolt together setup for the conversion which really only requires two holes to be drilled into the firewall and a tiny bit of welding on a mounting tab.

[ddeane]

I am sure that I have seen an answer to this question but can't seem to find it again. The inner control arm bushes are some 25mm higher on the KE70 xmember. After a piece of angle iron has neem welded in this still leaves about 20mm. Now I notice that those fitting the Beams engine use a 20mm spacer to mover the xmember down for clearance but for my 1GG I do not require to do this and for engineering I think it looks a bit more 'unmodified' if I don't have the spacer. What impact will having the control arm inner bush 20mm higher have on my suspension's operation?.

Craig

[Pagie84a]

I was wondering the same thing my guess was negative camber

[timbosaurus]

Just leaving that spacer out will not change camber at all. I think the KE70 xmember mounts are also wider than the celica's, so you will be pushing the bottom of the wheels out and will gain some camber there regardless of using a spacer or not.

All other things equal, leaving the spacer out will raise your front roll center. This is not necessarily a bad thing, especially on a lowered car where the roll center is pushing towards the ground.

assuming you are keeping the rack in the factory location on the xmember, it shouldn't change the steering geometry too much under bump. I'm not sure how good the standard KE70 xmember is in that regard already, but it's a good starting point.

[ddeane]

Just leaving that spacer out will not change camber at all. I think the KE70 xmember mounts are also wider than the celica's, so you will be pushing the bottom of the wheels out and will gain some camber there regardless of using a spacer or not.

All other things equal, leaving the spacer out will raise your front roll center. This is not necessarily a bad thing, especially on a lowered car where the roll center is pushing towards the ground.

assuming you are keeping the rack in the factory location on the xmember, it shouldn't change the steering geometry too much under bump. I'm not sure how good the standard KE70 xmember is in that regard already, but it's a good starting point.

This does confirm my thinking, although does raise concern regarding whether I retain the roll centre adjuster. 'Spose the next question is whether anyone has actually used a KE70 xmember in conjunction with a front sump 1GG and whether there was clearance without the 20mm spacer?

Craig

[sheepers]

i spaced mine down 25mm and im running RCA's on the front.
for me it was far more important to get the motor lower. 20mm is a long way for that much mass.