Standard Oil Temperature operating range...

[YLD-16L]

and secondly, who manufactures an oil thermostat - where and how would it be fitted?

Several places make them, I run a Permacool in line thermostat. Works great and is ugly as shit unless you've got room to hide it.

B&M and Mocal make one that look almost identical to the Permacool one.

Motorsport connections have nice tidy looking ones that are just like an oil sandwich plate and that can be mounted between the block and filter (or distribution plate) or between the remote mount and filter.

Where would it be fitted? as described above, in line or the sandwich plate. Depending on each set up you would find an ideal location.

How would it be fitted? that is self explanatory once you read the above.

When should it be fitted? pretty much on any non-track dedicated car with an oil cooler that does a good job at cooling (some of the shit cores you could probably get away with out a themrostat in wamrer climates as the cores do SFA anyway).

Much easier to let the thermostat do its job that stuff around with covers and what not especially if your cooler is in an awkward to access location.

Be careful with the Universal kits, if you need to get new lines made or the ones with the kit changed then it'll blow out the price of the cheap kit to equal or more than just buying all the right bits to start with.

[abently]

or perhaps he meant ducting, to direct air to and away from the cooler and to seal air leakage around the care when it is not fan assisted.

That is correct. On proper Setrab, Serck, Mocal etc Oil coolers you will find a Front on shroud helps a lot more of the air travel through the core rather then around it.

Factory Oil Coolers tend to have FPI designed around not running a shroud so adding one would be off little benefit.

Adding fan assistance is only advantageous on very low speed/fast accel and decel circuits for more then one lap. Would actually become a restriction if not configured correctly for high speeds.....

Oil thermostat's are worth the expense, time & stress wise in the long run, not sure why people even contemplate running without them.

B&M and Mocal actually resell the Permacool ones as there own........ The only advantage to the B&M one is that it is sold here in Australia, in case you want one locally and by the next day.

[Norbie]

I'm not running a thermostat and the oil seems to warm up fairly quickly; I do have a pretty small cooler though so if you have a big cooler a thermostat would certainly be recommended.

Beware those universal kits, some of them are woefully poor quality. A friend of mine got burned by one of these, the thread in the oil lines was poorly machined and stripped the thread off the fitting on the cooler which makes it a throwaway. For my setup I purchased the sandwich plate and cooler separately (on eBay) then purchased suitable rubber lines and push-on fittings. It was a bit more expensive than the universal kit but at least I know it's done right and the lines are exactly the right length.

[YLD-16L]

Beware those universal kits, some of them are woefully poor quality.

QFT!

At first I tried to save a penny and bought a decent sized ebay oil cooler core, the POS used a thread and fitting size no comapny made fittings for! The bloke at ENZED said he'd seen it many times before.

I'm not running a thermostat and the oil seems to warm up fairly quickly

You also live in the 'Sunshine State' I live in the 'Torturous Territory' where it dips well below zero.

[oldcorollas]

B&M and Mocal actually resell the Permacool ones as there own........ The only advantage to the B&M one is that it is sold here in Australia, in case you want one locally and by the next day.

B&M def do look like permacool, but the mocal are different...at least now

i think the need for shrouding depends on the need for cooling (well duh..)
sinc emost cars are almost fine not running a cooler 95% of the time, they onyl need a little help, and just having the extra surface area of the cooler is enough..
but for track and hard driving, then ducting is worth the effort

the permacool range seems to be a more budget designed thing, and the mocal look a bit better (but then again, they are british )

permacool/B&M


mocal range


edit: mocal also state (fro their thermostat)
"the sensing device will suffer permanent damage above 140°C"

so at least 140 is bad

[big_zop]

And most thermostats seemed to be designed around an opening temp of 160degF (71degC) and a fully open temp of 180degF (82degC) - mainly Earls, Mocal, Serc (or serck as CAPA spell). May be others that i havent checked. These are the decent brands fomr what i can gather.

Isnt that a little low from what has been discussed here?

[SuperDave]

^ The Permacool/B&M thermostat also has similar operating specs. They generally keep a minimum of 5-10% flow through which ever is the closed circuit at all times to avoid cold shock to the engine.
As for low, not really as the engine by that time is warmed up and can keep temperature in itself. If it is struggling, then the cooler is too big or needs to be partially blocked.

I found that the price between the B&M/Permacool thermostat to be similar money to the Earl's product. Unless I got a bargin on the Earl's or ripped off on the B&M. I know as I have both (not fitted together ), plus the Earl's thermostat is already tapped to take 3 sensors and has mounting holes, worth the extra in my mind.

[RyleyMA61]

what sort of prices are people talking for their sandwich plates and thermostats here? and recommended places of purchase?

I think my oil cooler may have too small inlets to flow the full engine oil, so i may have to purachse a new cooler too...

thanks for the good help though, most helpful and interesting

[big_zop]

Just got this response as i was interested in a thermostatic sandwich block from motorsport connections. (sorry bout the formatting - had to copy from an email and it didnt copy right)

Part NumberMaterialThreadTemp RatingDepthWidth Length
TD502Billet Alloy-10 Male160°-180°37mm95mm115mm
TD503Billet Alloy-10 Male160°-180°37mm95mm115mm
TD610Cast Alloy1/2" BSP Female160°-180°33mm75mm75mm

The TD502 has a 3/4"-16 thread to suit a ford / nissan filter. The -10 thread is for the cooler lines, which requires a -10 O-ring boss fitting. The cost of this part is $184.80. I hope this helps Regards Travis Check Out www.mscn.com.au

Also got an image as they didnt show up on the site. Cant see anything for sensor attachments.


Most seem to be around 150 but you have to factor in the required adaptors to go from the sandwich plate and the two hose ends along with the hose (unless you can use something from another kit) and this adds up.

Here is what i got quoted and i am pretty sure this is trade prices.
Item Manufacturer Qty Part No Price (ea)
Core -10 16 row 235mm Serc 1 SE1623510 $210.00
Thermo Sandwich Plate Speco 1 D15730 $90.00
Straight Screw in Fittings Speedflow 2 816-10-06 $9.25
Straight Hose Ends -10 Speedflow 2 101-10 $18.45
Hose -10 Speedflow 1.5m 100-10 $25.00/m
90deg Hose Ends -10 Speedflow 2 103-10 $41.00

(damn tabs wont show up...)

Go for the straighest adaptors that you can get away with as these are immensly cheaper plus its a lot better for flow.

[SuperDave]

From Earl's about a year ago I got;
19 row cooler $290 (41910ERL)
Thermostat $165 (501ERL)
Sandwich adapter $54 (516ERL) This fits most Toyotas with the smaller diameter filter
And a bunch of -10AN fittings.

Got it all direct from Earl's Australia and they were very helpful. Those prices are their discount price of 25% for what ever reason I got it for, some shops were telling me $400+ for the cooler alone! They also have a sandwich adapter with a built in thermostat for similar money to the external thermostat from memory, only downside is no where to put sensors.
Search with the product codes to see pics here; http://www.holley.com/index.asp?division=Earls

[YLD-16L]

what sort of prices are people talking for their sandwich plates and thermostats here? and recommended places of purchase?

I got a neat sandwich plate off ebay for about $45. Has 3x 1/8 NPT for sensors, I use two for sensors and one for turbo oil feed.

I got my thermostat from VPW and I think it was about $90.

Another bonus to the new setup was the ability to run a much larger oil filter than the 4A comes standard with.

[big_zop]

...and one for turbo oil feed.

Is this going to be an issue as the turbo drain only has gravity to get it down (which is why the drain is usually a large diameter) and isnt it pressurised (otherwise you couldnt rely on this position to use a gauge)?

[TooF]

going from the sandwich plate the oil is under pressure so it will flow up though the hose and into the turbo. the drain will obvisouy need to be flowing down no different as if the oil was coming from the oil pressure sender bung, head, other other oil gallery,

[big_zop]

But it shouldnt really matter which way the direction its flowing, the oil will go through the path of least resistance (much like any other fluid) and since gravity aint all that strong then i see it going up the drain pipe.

[YLD-16L]

Is this going to be an issue as the turbo drain only has gravity to get it down (which is why the drain is usually a large diameter) and isnt it pressurised (otherwise you couldnt rely on this position to use a gauge)?

Why would this be an issue? Oil feeds into core and out of drain. Pretty conventional turbo setup

But it shouldnt really matter which way the direction its flowing, the oil will go through the path of least resistance (much like any other fluid) and since gravity aint all that strong then i see it going up the drain pipe.

I am really confused now as to what is going through your head..

Happy to clarify but it doesn't get much simpler than oil in under pressure through a restrictor into top of turbo core -----> oil out bottom of core through 19mm drain to sump.