4A-GE into Excel

[GtiRboy]

i have to agree with nim, thats pretty funny

But out of an excel and my baby KE70 which is slow as and a biut rusty, i would prefer my KE70, RWD, good for paddock bashing, no matter how hard i thrash it, i hardly ever have any problems with it!

[mic*]

Just to respond to a few comments;

The excel has already had the suspension work done, and had the braking bias altered. I hate to say it but i challenge the guy in his JZA80 to hold it round a 90deg curve the at the speed the korean thing can. Perhaps not at 180km/hr, but the excel is not being built for that.

The best way to descibe the intention is for WOW & WHY appeal when the bonnet is sitting up at show-off occasions (when it gets there).

Basically when people think you're crazy/stupid/downright dumb, and yet you pull something off still, it gives you a bit of a thrill. Gary is this kind of person. Anyway enough said about the car choice coz it wouldnt be mine either.

AFAIK, Toyota, Hyundai, Mitsu - rotate clockwise. Honda - anti-clockwise.

I suggested the 4A-GZE but they are a bit hard to come by... Haven shopped on the net yet...

What are the internal differences between NA & FI spec versions, in particular the abovementioned NA one we are looking at starting with?

[Nim]

Toyota mounts their FWD engines on the other side to Mitsubishi and Honda. So either mitsubishis have an extra gear to reverse the output drive, or they spin the same way a Honda engine does.

I think you'll be surprised at how well a JZA80 handles. And once you start putting out big power from a FWD, watch all your suspension work be for nothing has your handling goes out the window anyway.

But, you know, it's his call I guess. It's his money after all.

P.S. I wrote that little thing more to be funny than anything else.

[nihilism]

Assume you get a 4G63 from an evo.
Lets assume you get one that isn't totaly crap, and can put out 200kw
Lets assume for a moment that after more than a year of pain and suffering, and messing about and spending way more than you expected to, you actualy get the engine sorted, and have it working in the car.
Lets also assume that after more messing about and blood and tears, you have the suspension and front wheel mods to put down that much power.

At this point your Excell has cost as much as a stock JZA80 RZ.

You go out and fine a JZA80 RZ to play with. He laughs at you, and so does the hot chick in his passenger seat. You, of course, only have your mate in the car, 'cuz you can't get a girl to sit in your excell, let alone be in the car while you drive.
He gives you a go though. You floor it, and he gets the jump on you 'cuz of his RWD and better torque. At the top of the gear, you gain on him. By the top of second you're neck and neck. But the top of third, there is about 1m between your rear bumper and his front bumper.
Then there comes a corner, and he sails past like your standing still. You enter the next corner a bit fast, to try to catch up, and you lock up those drum brakes you have, and spin your car, almost slaming your passenger side into a lamp post. Your mate punches you in the face and walks off. You never see him again.

You do some more suspension mods and finaly upgrade the brakes too, and put even fatter tyres on. Your car is now really hard to steer and is the most horrid daily ever, but at least it doesn't handle like a block of cement.

You go out again, this time with your new girlfriend who you managed to blackmail to come with you. You find this JZA80. You race again, and this time he thumps you. See while you where spending shitloads of cash on your handling, your JZA80 friend used the same amount of money to get some steel wheel turbos, up the boost, re-tune and get a full exhaust and intake. He now makes more power than you could hope to put down.
He also still beats you through the corners, even though he lets you catch up on the straights 'cuz his stock suspension is better than your modded suspension.

That night you try to get lucky with you girlfriend. She turns you down even though you parket in the most romantic place you could find. You go to leave, but your car wont start. You eventualy give up and your girlfriend gets her dad to come pick her up. Your girlfriends dad drives a BMW M3, and laughs at your car. You catch a Taxi home.

The next week you find out that some mechanic stuffed up, and your engine is gonna need a rebuild costing you more cash. Also, your girlfriend dumps you, and starts going out with the guy who was driving the JZA80 RZ.

The lesson? Just get a JZA80 Supra RZ. Not only will it be less hassle, it also wont be a bloody Excell!

[oldcorollas]

fuck, i can't believe you boys are so narrow minded.

a) regardless of how the engine spims, if you use the atrached gearbox it won't be a problem.. unless honduh cars go in revrse all the time

b) good on him for thinking outside the square. it may be initially dificult to fit enging and gearbox, but nothing someone with an angle grinder and welder could not do in a day anyway.
heck, i've seen GZE swaps into AE8/9/10 rollas in under an hour

solution, just get a JZA80? that could only come from a honduh boy

there are some very quick excels aroudn the place, and a GZE is an excellent base if you want to get up to 200+ fwkw.. just ignore the bullshit artists and do it right the first time.... and then whup their honda arses

[WDE_BDY]

Toyota mounts their FWD engines on the other side to Mitsubishi and Honda. So either mitsubishis have an extra gear to reverse the output drive, or they spin the same way a Honda engine does.

Mitsi changed the way their engines spin, which is why early 4G63's can be fairly easily converted to RWD but the later (I think around Evo V timeframe it changed) engines can't.
Personally, if he has the time/money/skill to do it then why not? FWD conversions are generally a lot harder though so if you are going to attempt it make sure you can finish it AND get it legal, not much demand for unfinished Hyundai projects.

Callum

[mic*]

^^^ This is true,

So please ppl, some suggestions on the engine? I could have left out the bit about where the engine was going and this would have been a thread full of hundreds of pieces of advice on 4A-GE's.

From what ive said, can anyone say what kind of 4A it is we're looking at, compression wise etc? What are the weaknesses for boost? My understanding is that the 4A's have reasonable internals that should cope with about 8-9psi no(read:limited) problems. This is about where we figure the ridiculously fun / insane threshold to be once in a 950kg excel...

Most of all what types of ignition conversions have been done from dizzy versions to run aftermarket ECU?

[wiso]

if your looking at a 4age from an AW11 mr2, you'd be looking at an 88kw bigport, they are a 9.4:1 comp, internals are ok, i had 6psi boost from a super charger running through one and its goes fine, you wouldn't want more than that though, although i know a guy here who has had 12psi from a turbo on one of these engines for a few years now, it starting to blow a bit of smoke, but nothing major.


the biggest thing you have to look at when putting the 4age in there is....... is it legal

what year model is the excel? if you do an engine change it has to be equal to the production year or later than the car its goin into, since that 4age came out in 87-89, well before any excel was made, you may have to try a later model 4age

[Nim]

The thing is oldcorollas, the engine is mounted on the other side in an excell. I'm not sure if you could get the steering colum past the engine if you put a toyota engine in there, unless you had the engine face the other direction (exhaust manifold on the back), and then you'd have trouble with which way the engine spins.

Seeming as the Lancer and Honda engines are both mounted the same way around as an Excell engine, it might be easier to use one of those. Also, Mitsubishi offers a fine turbocharged engine which starts at 190kw.

An AE92 getting a GZE is hardly the same as putting one in an Excell.

However, if you want to fit a 4A-GE, I would suggest don't. Get a 4A-GZE. It's already low comp, and comes with a supercharger. Take the SC off, put on a turbo, and you're set.

[mic*]

Nim,

Im not really following you on what your saying with the engine being mounted on the opther side? Exhaust goes to the front. Pulleys are on the drivers side - both the 4A toyo and the alpha1.5 hyundai AFAIK. Rotation doesnt matter if matching box is used.

And if it helps, i have seen a 4A-GZE in an excel before so it can be done.

Did they make 4A-GZE's post 96, the one (in an excel) ive seen was at Auto Salon so you'd think it would be compliant? What variants are post 96 then? This being the year of the car. Thanx for that info Wiso. Didnt think about that, tho im sure ive heard it before.

[Cam-Rush]

I think it would be so much easier to put a mitsi engine in, rigoli's put a 4G63 in a hyundai accents, ive read about them in excels, and most of the time they say, everything is a pretty easy conversion, and you only have to modify one engine mount and the rest bolts up, gearbox included.
i dont get why everyone is so against doing this...
whats wrong with doing something different? nobody pays out the people who do up starlet turbos, with drum rear ends...or ke series corollas, or celicas with rear drums, nobody pays out the hoards of drifters using rear drums on ADM AE86s...or the 11.90 sec rigoli AE92 thats FWD, or the large number of AE82 circuit cars that dont seem to crash into poles, and get their drivers punched.
you can pay out any car, or we could all just get identical commodores like the rest of the population.

[mic*]

Whats a 4G63 worth roughly? I will suggest it...

[Cam-Rush]

..not sure, look in a zoom mag, they have heaps of ads for engine packages.

[wiso]

unfortunatly if you excel is 96, there was no 4agze's made up till this year, i think the latest was about 93-94, deffinatly not beyond that, the only 4a varient that was made up to this date was the 4age 20V blacktop in the levins, hoohoo that would make it go nice

[fixeruperer]

4age into excel u should be shot