Lowered springs and struts?

[ReQuieM]

Hi all,

Ok so this isn't for my toyota but I figure the topic is relevant to all older model cars and toymods always has answers

SO I have an older model car with springs and struts, not shocks, and I want to lower the front. Now I'm under the impression that I need to also purchase struts that are also lowered. That'd be fine if I had the dollars to spend but atm I don't;

So WHY can't I run lowered springs on the standard struts? What can go wrong? Could I temporarily go low springs standard struts? Or could it end horribly?

I understand that the struts are actually part of the suspension system and travel etc, unlike shocks that just dampen but how? and is it really gonna make a difference?

Anyhow, toymod hive mind, enlighten me!

[Dale]

You can run them on standards struts/dampers, generally as long as there are bump stops to prevent the dampers hitting full travel and bottoming out there will be no damage per se, but due to the harder spring rate there will be increased wear on them.

Most cars you see that are lower than standards will not be running any different dampers to standard (ie. standard travel), and realistically don't end up with shot suspension because of this. In an ideal world you'd run shorter stroke dampers as the suspension would have less travel with shorter/stiffer springs, and the dampers would also have a harder rebound rate to match the springs. Of course, this is simply in an ideal world and most people will just throw lower springs in and maybe put in a newer set of standard or slightly uprated dampers/struts.

[ReQuieM]

Cool, Yeah with shocks i figured it be fine but wasn't sure on struts.

So basically its gonna be no worse for the struts then if you had sagging/sloppy springs as loong as the bump stop is till in good condition?

Thanx man, just what I was after.

[ReQuieM]

I must spread the love more before repping you, sorry man!

[Dale]

Cool, Yeah with shocks i figured it be fine but wasn't sure on struts.

So basically its gonna be no worse for the struts then if you had sagging/sloppy springs as loong as the bump stop is till in good condition?

Thanx man, just what I was after.

More or less, yep... if they're not bottoming out they shouldn't suffer catastrophic failure from running harder springs provided they're in decent nick... remember springs are there to take the shocks and bumps, while dampers (ie. what most people call shocks or struts) are there to dampen the springs and stop them from bouncing on.

One thing I would note though is that stuffed dampers (aka shocks) are more dangerous with harder springs than with softer standard springs as the car will bounce a lot more from small bumps and give tyres less contact with the road

Standard struts/dampers/shocks in decent or new condition will be fine with lowered springs

[WDE_BDY]

One of the main reasons for shorter stroke strut inserts is to keep the shorter spings captive, generally speaking most regular inserts won't bottom out if a bumpstop is fitted but will be operating outside their normal range.

Callum

[ReQuieM]

... Ok now I'm not sure if you guys are quite catching my drift or there really is fk all to worry about, have a look at these images:

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/...pension-11.gif
http://www.lastinterceptor.com/build/1Build10.jpg

This is kinda what I'm thinking about. I realise that shocks are only for dampening, but I was more after situations like above where the strut forms a connecting part of the susspension. Not just dampening. IE holding the top of the hub to the car etc.

Will it cause excessive wear? Will it effect the geomitry of the suspension in such a way that bushes will fail drive quality will be impared etc?

[ReQuieM]

Yeah I gather that those are worst case scenarios and that the travel of the whole suspension set up once aligned to the new height (camper toe etc) should be fine, but I'm really at a loss to know what could be effected by long struts and short spring, Why does everyone freak about getting lowered struts to suit lowered springs on an old model car??

Is it really just the bottoming out of the shocks piston??

[oldcorollas]

loss of suspension travel.
a long spring in a short strut will keep original or better travel.

on some old cars, there is not a lot of travel anyway, and they sit high, so once you lower it, you run out of bump travel... hence the need to fit short struts.

ie, KE10's sit high and have more rebound than bump.. once you lower them.. there is not much bump at all...

[Stefan]

You also want your springs to be captive at full droop.

Another argument against stock inserts is that stiffer springs may be underdamped, which is horrible. Dampers are important, spent some money on them.

[oldcorollas]

the other way is...

you could use stock springs with lowered struts and stock dampers... to have a lower ride heigth with standard ride quality.

if you are not after the fooly sik dorifto gokart ride, then "lowered struts" may be the answer...

[ReQuieM]

Hmmm... so I could get similar height with just shortened shocks eh? I might have to do that instead! Thanx oldcorollas! I guess worst case if I get the shortened struts with stock springs and it sits too high I could cut em But that will kill the ride as well.

[oldcorollas]

shorter shocks (for more bump) usually mean cut down struts anyway..

it totally depends on the type of suspension it is though...
if you had shortened struts with stock springs, you would know how much lower it would be.

if you had lowered springs already, then you would know how much to shorten the struts by...

if the shocks are not in the struts, then it is a different story....

choose the stiffness of suspension you want, then ride height, then match shock to that ride height, then match strut to shock, then match spring to it all.. standard equation...