Classic Engine to EFI

[kylestyleup]

Is that toysport from the US? no wonder it's expensive.
What are your goals?

- Yes, ToySport USA.

- I would prefer performance. But as of now I am thinking of economy since it's a daily driver, and I don't have a budget yet for a big upgrade.

The modification I made yet is the carb.
I have made some air-bleeds and hook the secondary with a wire.
Some few insulations...
Soon I'll be adding an oxygen sensor so I could go lean safely.

If it is just about fuel mapping, a friend shared a tip.
A reflashable ECU via the OBDII port. (e.g. EcuFlash) without using piggy...
By using another car/brand ECU, can EFI be done to an 18R? Anyone?

I would like to thank you all in advance.

[thechuckster]

A - you can't reflash 18RGUE or 22RE ECUs, and OBDII is not present on these ECUs (or even 3SGE ECUs)

B - yes, it can (18RE), but you have to:
-fit injector bosses and fuel rail to the intake manfold
-source and fit suitable injectors and fuel rail and fuel pressure regulator
-create a plenum (current manifold volume wont suffice if replacing carbi with a throttle body)
-create suitable position for throttle body
-change fuel tank to EFI with intank EFI pump
- wire up to suit ECU
(is actually a lot of work - i know this personally and am reminded of it daily).

The Toyota motor lost likely to be close to the 18R is the 22RE, another model might fit, but you then have to work out how to fit their timing gear to the Toyota Dizzi.

If you're on a budget and have some wiring and tuning skills then something like Megasquirt might be what you're after - in it's basic configuration it's fuel only and has supported narrow-band and wideband (with a controller) O2 sensors.

If you're after economy then moving onto performance then something easily tunable would make sense - plenty of Oz hardware to choose from (Microtech, Haltech, Adaptronix) as well as above mentioned Megasquirt. Re-mapping ECU's means relying on a supplier to do that for you - whereas something programmable you can do yourself or in conjunction with a workshop.

Is still think that starting out with an EFI motor would be 14053% easier.

[kylestyleup]

A - you can't reflash 18RGUE or 22RE ECUs, and OBDII is not present on these ECUs (or even 3SGE ECUs)

B - yes, it can (18RE), but you have to:
-fit injector bosses and fuel rail to the intake manfold
-source and fit suitable injectors and fuel rail and fuel pressure regulator
-create a plenum (current manifold volume wont suffice if replacing carbi with a throttle body)
-create suitable position for throttle body
-change fuel tank to EFI with intank EFI pump
- wire up to suit ECU
(is actually a lot of work - i know this personally and am reminded of it daily).

Is still think that starting out with an EFI motor would be 14053% easier.

Wow thanks...
But how can I fash Toyota ECUs by my self (laptop)...?
Isn't there any software that I need...?

[thechuckster]

you can't reflash them at all - at least none from the era of any of the motors talked about in this thread.

[MWP]

you can't reflash them at all - at least none from the era of any of the motors talked about in this thread.

Hence why you need an aftermarket piggy-back ECU to correct the fuel maps...

[kylestyleup]

Thanks guys. Now I seem to understand it a bit.

I've googled about Toyota chips. Found that it's the hardest to crack.
But now I already have something to start with.
I'll just try to research more on this and stick to my plan on O2 sensor and AFM for now.

[Joshstix]

Other than being a serious exercise in attempting to polish a turd, if you're going to adapt an OEm management system at least use something that is programmable. A honda computer would be a good option I reckon, there's plenty of cheap aftermarket tuning software for them.

[clubagreenie]

Polishing a turd
Pushing shit uphill
The list of acronyms for what you're trying to achieve is endless

At the end of the day, if you're looking for performance. Money spent on improving an 18r would be better spend on a gym member ship to go anorexic and drop some weight. (apologies if you are overweight) or take one less friend on a cruise will yield better economy.

If you REALLY want to go EFI then get a 20/21/22R. At least it started out that way and has a bit more capacity/go without spending anymore money AND will come as a complete package (engine/wiring/computer plus access to fuel lines/tank/pump etc). I'm sure you could find one there for less than you'll burn on the 18R.

[kylestyleup]

At the end of the day, if you're looking for performance. Money spent on improving an 18r would be better spend on a gym member ship to go anorexic and drop some weight. (apologies if you are overweight) or take one less friend on a cruise will yield better economy.

R series arranged according to popularity - 12R, 16R, 18R
I can go with turbo any time with an EFI.

If you REALLY want to go EFI then get a 20/21/22R. At least it started out that way and has a bit more capacity/go without spending anymore money AND will come as a complete package (engine/wiring/computer plus access to fuel lines/tank/pump etc). I'm sure you could find one there for less than you'll burn on the 18R.

20/22R here is more rare than the 18RG which I dream about.
Average people here are afraid of over 2 liter of engine capacity.
Only ones with money has the guts to go for 2.5 liter, and V6s/V8s
Average - I say average people here are on 1.6, 1.8, 2 liters.


I am after economy. EFI conversion will be insignificant if over 2 liters.

[thechuckster]

a 22RE with proper engine management will use less fuel than a non-crossflow 18R with hand-made EFI hardware.

Why not look at a T-series engine?

Have you looked at utilities( e.g. hilux) and people movers (did Tarago use a 22RE or were they S-series engines?) as engine donors?

[Joshstix]

Do the maths first. Lets say you improve your fuel economy by 5%, which would be a pretty good effort with a completely random tune I reckon.

Figure out how much fuel you use per year. Figure out how much 5% of that fuel costs.

Now figure out what the conversion is going to cost. Then double it so you're closer to reality.

Now if the cost of the fuel the same or more than the last calculation for the cost of the conversion it may be worth the problems you're going to encounter.

Mind you a nice efficient set of extractors and exhaust and a good tune of the carby would most likely get you to at least that good a level of economy as well

[gianttomato]

I reckon give it a go, if for no other than reason than to have a little play. If it's crap, just revert back to the carb.

Did you guys get the throttle body injected 2S-E over there? This will be the easiest option - all you'd need is to modify the manifold to take the throttle body and (probably) modify the distributor. Then there's the usual wiring and high pressure fuel system to be sorted, but you'd be doing that anyway.

I thought about doing this to my 12R in the RT81. I then realised a 2VZ would rock much much more.

[o_man_ra23]

gianttomato is on the right track... if you cant source a 2S-E TBI locally, then you may be able to get somebody to raid a wrecker for it over here for you. I still think that a Megasquirt will by far and away be your best bet as you can then tune the EFI properly, and as mentioned before, another car's EFI system will run like shit on the 18R... if it runs at all!!

[kylestyleup]

gianttomato is on the right track... if you cant source a 2S-E TBI locally, then you may be able to get somebody to raid a wrecker for it over here for you. I still think that a Megasquirt will by far and away be your best bet as you can then tune the EFI properly, and as mentioned before, another car's EFI system will run like shit on the 18R... if it runs at all!!

Hmm... it seems you guys really hate 18R so much. lol
I have no choice... This is what I have.
Reminds me outrunning a Civic on a zigzag to a 5 blocks/corners. (got to love the torque)
Any ways... I can't afford to get another engine.
I will consider MegaSquirt since it's universal.
But I will do the math first of course. If the estimated cost of EFI conversion goes over half the price of 3S-GE swap (plan B), I will not go any step forward on this EFI conversion.

[o_man_ra23]

Make a list of the parts you will need... there may be some things you dont think about that some of us here will be able to point out so you dont get nasty surprises.