Classic Engine to EFI

[kylestyleup]

Hello all,

I am new here... I've been reading lots of thread here and it really helped me a lot.

I don't know if you already have posted things similar to my problem.

I am planing to convert my 18R to EFI.
I know you would prefer 18R-G as I have read some few threads here.
But it is difficult and almost nowhere to find a G head back here in the Philippines.
(I'm with my family here.) A SOHC here is everywhere.

My question is, can I use a 3S-GE or a 4A-GE ECUs for the 18R?
Will this work? No we don't have MegaSquirt.
I've read somewhere before an old BMW using a 3S-GE ECU.

Help is very much appreciated.

[kristian]

i can sorce a rg head thats reco'd and u could have it shipped to you, i can even get a efi setup for ya too

[MWP]

My question is, can I use a 3S-GE or a 4A-GE ECUs for the 18R?

Would be difficult to do, but yeah, you could.
Obviously the fuel & ignition maps would be wrong, so you would also need to use an addon interceptor style aftermarket ECU as well to correct the mapping.

[Steve M]

Are you not able to find an 18R-E
They came with EFI from Japan.

[Steve M]

Also remember that if you can find twin cam head, you also need a lot of other parts, like timing case and distributor to suit it, oil pump drive dummy shaft and locating cap. timing chain tensioners and guides, timing chain and pistons to suit hte different valve layout.

[kylestyleup]

Would be difficult to do, but yeah, you could.
Obviously the fuel & ignition maps would be wrong, so you would also need to use an addon interceptor style aftermarket ECU as well to correct the mapping.

This will be a good modification and reference to all if succesfull.

So you are saying to piggy-back the ecu?

I'm not in to tech so I don't understand a bit...?
Isn't 3S-GE 2 liter and so 18R...?
Can not we just relocate injection to coup with the 18R timing...?

Sorry... have tons of questions....

@ Steve M:
No we don't have 18R-E here.

[MWP]

So you are saying to piggy-back the ecu?

Yes.

I'm not in to tech so I don't understand a bit...?
Isn't 3S-GE 2 liter and so 18R...?
Can not we just relocate injection to coup with the 18R timing...?

They are quite different engines... they need different fuel & ignition tuning.

The VE tables in the 3S-GE ECU will be all wrong for the 18R.
Itll probably run, but not very well.

[oldcorollas]

the megasquirt can be shipped to any country, and if you use a dizzy, you only need a very basic MS1...
i used it to control fuel on my 4K, and there is no reason why you could not use it for the 18R.

to make it easier, you could even just replace the carby with a throttle body injection (TBI) unit, instead of finding/making a multipoint injection manifold.
a TBI would still be better than carby.

to use the ECU from a different engine, and then use an interceptor to tune it, will be MUCH harder to tune than using a megasquirt... the reason is, with another engines ECU, you have no idea what the outputs will be for different conditions, and when you "adjust" it, you have no idea how much you are adjusting, since you are only modifying input signals.

with an MS, you are only adjusting the fuel output, based on the nromal inputs, so it is very simple and fast to tune.

[kylestyleup]

the megasquirt can be shipped to any country, and if you use a dizzy, you only need a very basic MS1...
i used it to control fuel on my 4K, and there is no reason why you could not use it for the 18R.

to make it easier, you could even just replace the carby with a throttle body injection (TBI) unit, instead of finding/making a multipoint injection manifold.
a TBI would still be better than carby.

to use the ECU from a different engine, and then use an interceptor to tune it, will be MUCH harder to tune than using a megasquirt... the reason is, with another engines ECU, you have no idea what the outputs will be for different conditions, and when you "adjust" it, you have no idea how much you are adjusting, since you are only modifying input signals.

with an MS, you are only adjusting the fuel output, based on the nromal inputs, so it is very simple and fast to tune.

I see... How much is MS today?
I've been studying MegaSquirt. I might consider it if there are no any other option.
My goal is to run EFI with in the reach or our resource.

Here, to import an engine is as expensive as buying a used car.
And importing the 18R-GEU is as much as buying an earlier 3S-GTE locally...

[clubagreenie]

Main question is whats it going into? If it's cheap to buy a 3s and it'll fit (same model came with different engine package). There might be a better option again. What is the overall goal? Economy, performance, reliability?

[kylestyleup]

Main question is whats it going into? If it's cheap to buy a 3s and it'll fit (same model came with different engine package). There might be a better option again. What is the overall goal? Economy, performance, reliability?

Hmmm. You may have a point.
It's different here...
I don't know how to convert the amount in to your dollar value, but here are the figures.

Local price
3S-GE = P35,000 (P is Philippine peso) note: cut
My car = P25,000

18R-G = $4,000 (from ToySport) at about P164,000
3S-GE = $2,500 (from ToySport) at about P102,500

With over 100,000 Philippine pesos you can have a used, good conditioned later cars within the 90's model.

I am aiming to preserve the 18R engine and upgrade with in our resource here in the Phils.

[clubagreenie]

Is that toysport from the US? no wonder it's expensive.

So with a RT132 you could go 3S for ease of fitment or even make it an XT if someone donated a starfire motor from here.

What are your goals? You need to work out what you want to get out of the car. If you want to keep it running, keep it std, better performance with EFI, 3S will be better straight off (18RG will need mods to reach 3S std figures). Better economy, EFI the 18R (bolt on, someone in Aust will have one to send).

Converting an 18R to RG you are really better off (especially in your case with even harder access to /longer waiting time for parts) getting a complete 18RG and no way would one be 4000 from Australia. Hell for 4000 I'll source and throw a set of rings and bearings and gasket kit at one, and still have change that'd probably cover shipping.

If you get the parts to convert an R to RG you can bet something will be missing (usually because they couldn't find it in the first place) then charge you an arm and a leg for the "not usually included in a conversion package ('cause no one ever does it)" part. AND wait for it to be shipped.

Or you could buy the late model car, remove 3S, sell off parts.

[thechuckster]

having EFI'd an 18R engine (tho turbo charged as well) i can say that it's a major PITA! don't do it.

The only 18RE i've seen was a picture

You could fit injector bosses to an NA manifold but it would still issues of a reasonably-sized plenum to make and no ECU configured for this motor unless you go programmable (e.g. megasquirt) which you;d have to tune yourself.

Go the 18RG route by getting 2nd-hand engine via eBay or other online places (e.g. like here), not new bits from the USA...

otherwise do as the Americans do and go the 22RE route - it will bolt up to your existing gearbox, it has plenty of torque, is crossflow and is already EFI.

[GA61XX]

having EFI'd an 18R engine (tho turbo charged as well) i can say that it's a major PITA! don't do it.

The only 18RE i've seen was a picture

You could fit injector bosses to an NA manifold but it would still issues of a reasonably-sized plenum to make and no ECU configured for this motor unless you go programmable (e.g. megasquirt) which you;d have to tune yourself.

Go the 18RG route by getting 2nd-hand engine via eBay or other online places (e.g. like here), not new bits from the USA...

otherwise do as the Americans do and go the 22RE route - it will bolt up to your existing gearbox, it has plenty of torque, is crossflow and is already EFI.

The RT133 had the 21R-c motor...
So you just want the RT133's sump & oil pick up,
Fit sump & oil pick up to RA65's 22R-E, or RT142's 22R-E, ('85 dosn't knock senser, '86 has knock & Ox senser..)

PS. also good for RA23/28's & RA40's

[o_man_ra23]

I was looking at putting EFI onto an 18R-C not so long ago, and decided an 18R-GEU was easier and more logical (also putting a turbo on).

As OC said though, a MS1 and TBI setup would be the cheapest and easiest way. Dont forget to put in an oxygen sensor. The MS2 I bought was US$247 from DIYAutotune.com and the MS1 is cheaper.

The option of a 22RE is also a good one, they have plenty of torque, and respond well to fitment of a MS or other aftermarket ECU to improve thier efficiency. As stated by GA61, the 86 on 22RE is the one to go for as it has oxygen sensor feedback and knock sensing.