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Thread: Blacktop 3sge into Sw20

  1. #16
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia
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    Default Re: Blacktop 3sge into Sw20

    i have 1 for 3000 if you are interested

  2. #17
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia Alchemist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blacktop 3sge into Sw20

    Did see a redtop beams SW20 halfcut going a while back for $3800....not a bad buy...but you want the blacktop....
    Current : 1996 JZA80 Supra SZ-R 2JZ-GE
    Current : 2003 ST246 Caldina N Edition 3S-GTE
    Past : 1990.5 SW20 MR2 3S-GE
    Past : 1976 TA23 Celica 2T-GEU

  3. #18
    Low rep Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: Blacktop 3sge into Sw20

    Hey, wouldnt the 3S-GTE gearbox have different ratios to the standard 3SGE box?? I think it would!! And if so, might not drive too good without forced induction.
    This problem happened when I did the conversion on my AE82, with a 4AGZE box.

  4. #19
    Estranged Member Chief Engine Builder mullett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blacktop 3sge into Sw20

    Other problem (which you're probally aware) is if you build the bottom end to handle boost;
    A) It will be heavier (stronger rods, pistons etc)
    B) Low compression means much less NA power until you turbo it.

    Maybe keep the motor stock, and when you get the funds to turbo it, do the build then...

    RM.

  5. #20
    Forum Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: Blacktop 3sge into Sw20

    If thats the case with the GB, i think i'd be borrowing just the LSD then

    And who said you need to run low compression when running boost? By the time i turbo it, we'll probably be up to 12:1 on unleaded, as it is i've seen turbo's running 10:1 now. Granted it will be a bit heavier though... but a lot more fun.

  6. #21
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: Blacktop 3sge into Sw20

    I can confirm the Altezza engine will not fit properly without major sump changes. You need a Caldina or SW20 red top sump, dipstick and oil pump to avoid major hassles. These can be fitted to an Altezza blcok. The left & front parts of the Altezza block are not drilled for the SW20 mounts and mods are needed . The Altezza front pulley is totally different and you cant use a earlier version without major mods.

  7. #22
    Forum Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: Blacktop 3sge into Sw20

    Thanks for that terryo, If all the problems are known up front, then it's gonna go a whole lot smoother as they will be expected, Its the unexpected problems that tend to suck. Have you been involved in this swap before?

  8. #23
    Forum Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: Blacktop 3sge into Sw20

    I've been sitting on it for a while now, thinking of the best way to tackle it. For the extra 10 hp there is going to be a lot of work involved it seems, If the only main difference is that the blacktop has an exhaust VVTI, maybe i'm going to be better off finding a redtop beams to put in, and when the altezza heads become more availible, put the blacktop head on the redtop block.

    Does this sound a little more achievable to you guys?
    NXI-44W - '95 MR2 Bathurst
    -1st(Class) - Kempsey Hillclimb
    -8th(All) - Armidale M/khana (with a BIG penalty)
    -1st, 3rd(Class) - Grafton Hillclimb
    -3rd(Class) - Grafton Hillclimb (State championship round)
    -3rd(Class) - Raleigh Raceway

  9. #24
    Junior Member Domestic Engineer urantia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blacktop 3sge into Sw20

    yeah for sure a fwd redtop is much easier for your conversion, so much less farkin around with a rwd altezza motor. Also you can get blacktop beams in fwd format, but still only vvti on the intake. Not really sure on the differences between the red and black tops in FWD format.

    I should have a blacktop beams from a caldina (fwd) to play around with soon can't wait.
    98 3rz-fe Hilux 4x4
    97 Hiace AWD Super Custom 1kz turbo diesel (sold)
    87 MA70 w/ 1JZ-GTE Manual Conversion GT (moss growing on roof deteriorating away but open to offers)

  10. #25
    Forum Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: Blacktop 3sge into Sw20

    Yea, it sounds more applicable to me,
    I've got myself a set of hurricane headers for a celica st162, Which are to be port matched, ceramic coated and fitted, with a 2.5" single tip exhaust from that, its gonna come close to $1000 (at trade prices too!), if it mates up to the redtop head, saves me doing the headers again at a later date (at least till i turbo it).
    NXI-44W - '95 MR2 Bathurst
    -1st(Class) - Kempsey Hillclimb
    -8th(All) - Armidale M/khana (with a BIG penalty)
    -1st, 3rd(Class) - Grafton Hillclimb
    -3rd(Class) - Grafton Hillclimb (State championship round)
    -3rd(Class) - Raleigh Raceway

  11. #26
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: Blacktop 3sge into Sw20

    the GTE box has different axles , outer CV's etc to you NA MR2. complete swap needed. The ratios are slightly different with every model. I have most of them charted if neeeded. The GTE axles need a support boss on the block that was not present on the Altessa block I had in my hand. CelicaRA45 can confirm this .

  12. #27
    is firing on all eight. Carport Converter AndyTTR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blacktop 3sge into Sw20

    Just a few things i picked up reading over the thread;

    - If your car is a Bathurst edition, then i'm pretty sure it has a Gen 3 engine.

    - The 'red top' from the late SW20's and ST202 is the Gen 4 (single VVTi) BEAMS engine. It is identical (except for the position of the catalytic converters?) to the 'black top' BEAMS engine from the Caldina. The Altezza 'black top' is a Gen 5 with dual VVTi as others have said.

    - ST162 headers wont fit the later model 3SGE heads. I'm fairly certain that the Gen 3 (which you already have) and Gen4 exhaust manifolds (pre-collector section) are identical. Dont waste your money on the ST162 extractors because they wont fit!

    -For more info on converting a FWD engine to your MR setup check out this site:
    http://gtfour.supras.org.nz/3S-GTE%20Conversion.htm
    It refers to converting a MR engine to FWD, but doing it backwards (MR -> FWD) will require the same amount of work.

    Hope this helps.

  13. #28
    Forum Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: Blacktop 3sge into Sw20

    Its definately a gen 3 (unless someone's changed the engine number, which i doubt), i never got around to the fitting of the headers we got, as soon as the heatshielding came off we decided against putting the other headers on, as the factory units were top notch as far as quality went and we doubted that any more could be done to them, so when i go down sydney way next i'm going to get them ceramic coated and leave it at that.

    I've found a Gen 4 from a MR2 on fleabay ($5700 for a true longblock), the ad show the low k's (around 20k miles) and he claims he has one in his car, so i've begun a game of 20 questions with him to find out how genuine the engine and its condition is in, i sent it off saturday, waiting to hear from him as i hit him with the harder questions straight up (whats the engine number, is it originally from a mr2 or celica or caldina... who inspected it seeming he is american and engine is still in japan) So i'll see how i go... by the time my curiosity is satisfied i might be able to afford it, though he is neg. on price

    Am i correct in assuming the block is the same between the gen 4 redtop and gen 5 blacktop? If the above engine works out, i'll be looking to put a blacktop head on it, i expect this will be a lot less hassle and probably cheaper too than making an altezza engine fit.

    Anyone know if the gen 3 and gen 4 (the SW20 one) share the same engine mounts, i'm guessing so but haven't confirmed this.

    Also if anyone is interested in some st162 headers, i got some to sell cheaply (ie at almost trade price)
    NXI-44W - '95 MR2 Bathurst
    -1st(Class) - Kempsey Hillclimb
    -8th(All) - Armidale M/khana (with a BIG penalty)
    -1st, 3rd(Class) - Grafton Hillclimb
    -3rd(Class) - Grafton Hillclimb (State championship round)
    -3rd(Class) - Raleigh Raceway

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