Exhaust gas temp sensors worth recommending.

[Howieau]

Im in the market for a good exhaust gas temp sensor, can anybody recommend any, or are they all as good as eachother?

Its for a 2nd gen 3sgte if that makes any difference.

[cptsideways]

Is it a generic one? if so you need to get one that will last & not erode away, I use a VEMS unit, they supply the sensors seperately & they are guaranteed for 3 years too. I'm sure Phatbob is here on the forum somewhere if not go to www.vems.co.uk & he'll sort you out.

[Howieau]

How do you mean by generic?

Im sensor illiterate at this stage, I really have no idea what I'm to be looking at in buying this gauge, except that it is an EGT. Cheers ill check the site out

[brett_celicacoupe]

VDO do em.

on ebay sometimes

[Howieau]

I was looking into an oxygen sensor too but my funds are kind of limited as I have to pay for a dyno tune aswell. I have heard that dyno workshops can put an oxygen sensor in your exhaust pipe to tune with, so you don't require your own to be installed. Is this true?

I hope to get away with just installing an exhaust gas temp sensor and gauge to monitor exhaust temperatures once it has been tuned so I'll know if it is leaning out or such (higher gas temps).

Given my limited funds, would this be a good way of doing things. Get a proper tune with an oxygen sensor(the dyno owners) and exhaust gas temp sensor/gauge on a dyno, then have the exhaust gas temp gauge as a form of monitoring combustion temps from then on so I know if anything goes wrong if the temps get too high. Would this be a sufficient safeguard? I just don't want to be spending any money unnecessarily if I don't need to.

Ill look into after market coolant temp, oil temp, oil pressure later. At this stage Im just interested in getting and maintaining a good tune.

[mikie_121]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but don't all 3s engines have an exhaust gas oxygen (EGO) sensor as stock?
If you are running the stock ECU and don't have the sensor then won't it come up with an error?
My EGO sensor died and my car had a complete hissy till I fixed it.

Unless you have a method of changing your fuel ratios while driving why bother about an EG temp sensor? Your ECU could use an EGO much more than an EG sensor.

[Howieau]

Yeh I run an aftermarket ECU - an EMS.
I'm not sure whether you can sure with the stock EGO, but I recall a friend of mine trying once and saying they're rubbish, or he was referring to a cheap aftermarket one or something. I think for more accurate tuning something like a wideband o2 sensor would be required as opposed to the stock setup.

Still, do the dyno places have the o2 sensors already? Could save me having to buy one just for the initial tune.

[Vios-GT_07]

Dyno Dynamics and Links have 02 sensors they shove up the exhaust to get A/F ratio and exhaust information.. and heavily depend on them to tune the car

and yea wideband 02 sensor is expensive but worth every penny if you plan to tune the car yourself... otherwise it's an over-priced and under-utilized paper weight

[Enchanter]

... except that it is an EGT...

This is a Exhaust Gas Temp

Correct me if i'm wrong, but don't all 3s engines have an exhaust gas oxygen (EGO) sensor as stock?....

This is Exhaust Gas Oxygen

They are different sensors for different purposes.

I imagine you are after a a EGO sensor for tuning, but as mentioned you only want a wideband as the narrow band ones are almost useless exept in their stock setup used from the factory.

In other words, you dont want one unless you are after some "rice". The dyno tune will fix you up and you will be fine.

[Howieau]

Yeh I guess I worded that badly. What I meant to say is I need an EGT sensor and gauge but I don't know what types/brands are available. What my options are so to speak.

Im looking into a pyrometer kit now from Autometer, anybody heard anything good/bad about them?

[oldcorollas]

i think you are getting it arse about. your friend is a bit confused

you need to get an O2 sensor (a normal narrow band one that is the type fitted to 99% of cars new), as that will allow the engine to run stoich during cruise and light throttle, as the ECU can correct the mixtures. narrow band sensors can be gotten cheap. try to get a good branded one, ie Bosch or NTK. they all work the same way anyway (as far as the sensor goes). heated one is better and can be put further away from turbo.

you NEED a narrow band O2 sensor at minimum, or your cat could die an early death due to running rich for prolonged periods of time when cruising.

for EGT sensor, you really need one per cylinder and mount it close to the head.
if you have a single sensor, before the turbo.. you have no idea which cylinder it is measuring and they are nto fast enough to differentiate between cylinders.

having a single one gives you a rough idea, but as far as mixtures go, it is a pretty crap way to tell if you are lean or not.
wideband sensors and controller circuits do not need to be expensive. there are cheapish options out there, ie couple of hundred $.
unless your ECU can control the fuel based on an AFR table, using the wideband sensor as feedback, then it is only a monitor, and won't really help the engine to run better.

oil and water temp, and oil pressure, are more important to knowing when your engine will self destruct.
narrow band O2 will help engine be happy during druise and save you money on fuel
wideband O2 will tell you the lambda, and can help with on-throttle mixute monitoring.

EGT is last on list, and is better to have one per cylinder, so you know when one cylinder is getting too hot.

[Adsport]

i LOVE my Greddy SMi gauges i have the full set. they are rediculously accurate and responsive !


also pricey


addition: as far as wideband sensors/meters go , i have had good results using the Innovate LC-1 kit. they also have a plug in meter that can be remotely mounted.

[Howieau]

The car has a narrow band (I assume its narrow band) o2 sensor from factory in the middle of the exhaust system under the car and on the dump pipe immediately after the turbo - both from factory. I no longer run a factory ECU though, Im running an aftermarket EMS. So I think these aren't being used.

I am coming close to the end of an engine build and am just uneducated in what sensors are required to obtain/maintain a good tune. I understand the importance of oil temp/pressure and water temp in engine monitoring as time goes on, but as far as I know I didnt think they could be utilized that much in tuning, well only making sure the engine is not-overheating and is lubricated during tuning. Ill get those temp/pres gauges as soon as I can when funds allow, but first priority is getting a decent tune (bad tune killed my last engine haha, so a little concerned this time around).

I have a stock exhaust manifold too that will be upgraded early next year so I dont want to really modify it as itll be thrown away soon, as with the turbo. I do though have a couple ports on my dump pipe (from ebay), 1 for an exhaust temp sensor, 1 for an o2 sensor.

Also I dont have a cat converter at this stage, but wouldnt the dyno lads tune it stoich anyway on the dyno?

As you can tell, I think im the one who is a little confused haha.


P.S. Im looking at gauges, some go up to 1600*F and some go to 2000*F. The design i want only goes to 1600, is there much chance my exhaust temps would go any higher, would I be better off going with the 2000*F or is that only for heavily modified cars (race/drag)? Having the better gauge is more important to me than having the prettier one.

[Adsport]

the sensor underneath the car where the catalytic converter is is purely to inform you of overheating in that area , say if your cat gets old and collapses then overheats and goes molten then solid, completely blocking your exhaust. then you get a cute little red light on the dash

[oldcorollas]

how many wires do the 2 O2 sensors have?
you should use one or the other for the EMS computer. that way, it can run closed loop during cruise and light throttle, save you petrol, and save your cat from melting.
if the EMS can't run closed loop, bin it.

i can understand your concern, but having EGT sensors will not help your tune.

what do you mean a "bad tune" killed your last engine?

you will need to fit a cat. consider it your moral and ethical responsibility... apart from the EPA fines

i think maybe you need to read up on how an ECU controls the engine.

MAP or AFM sensor, combined with inlet air temp sensor, tell the ECU how much air is going in. your tuner will then program the ECU with how much fuel gets squirted in for a given RPM/amount of air.
during cruise and light throttle, the narrow band sensor will give feedback to the ECU about if the mixture is stoich or not.
your tuner will make it close (or should), but it is not uncommon for the O2 sensor to correct 5-10% to compensate for various little changes.

under load (ie, boost), the narrowband is of no use. a wideband would be useful, but it has it's limitations being on the car everyday (arguably). your tuner will use a wideband lambda meter to program the amount of fuel that goes in under load conditions also.
it is unlikely that the EMS has an AFR target table to be able to use the wideband to directly control fuel under closed loop.. and there are arguments for and against that anyway.

what is infinitely more important is the ignition timing.
this is what sets tuners apart (in my mind). the tuner will need to program the ignition advance under cruise and load conditions, with little feedback. advancing until it pings is not the right way to do it.
the stock ECU may have had a knock sensor, and when it detects knock, the timing is retarded to reduce knock.
but with aftermarket computers, the knock sensor can be between hit and miss, and totally useless. the algorithm used to detect if there is actualyl knock may be useless, and the effeectiveness will change dependin gon the engine, and may vary between the same type of engine but different setup.
so, you cannot rely on knock sensor to save your engine. by the time it detects and reacts to knock, it may be too late.
it is imperative that the tuner programs good ignition settings.

so that is how the engine is controlled.

as far as EGT goes... not many ECU's will use an EGT input to control engine parameters.
the response time of an EGT could be seconds. the time it takes to destry an engine can be milliseconds. EGT will change with load and rpm. at whta poin tdo you program the ECU top react to a high EGT, adn what do you tell it to do? retard timing? add more fuel? apply boost or rpm cut?

basically.. EGT will play no part in "getting a good tune". that will depend totalyl on the tuner you use.
for you to have EGT, it will be a monitoring tool, just like oil pressure or water/oil temp, and your reaction to a higher EGT (by taking your foot off) may already be too late.

imho, it is much better for you to get water and oil temp, and oil pressure gauges first, and then get EGT after....

are you tuning it yourself?

edit: footnotes: "obtain good tune" = pay someone to tune it properly. not all tuners are good.
"maintain a good tune" = have it tuned properly in first place, with regard to different air temps and coolant temps etc. also, maintain good tune comes from making sure your parts are kept in good condition. there is no reason for an enging to go "out of tune" unless you have a parts failure (blocked injectors, dead pump or MAP etc), or the tune was shit/not complete in the first place