AE** FWD CV shaft spec's / lengths / interchangeability???

[PrettyCoolWagon]

Hi,
I'm looking into front suspension mod's in order to raise front suspension on AE95.

Me and whole bunch of other guys over at

http://alltracwagon.net/

are trying to determine the best way to raise the front end.We've discussed all the povo spec ways you could do it bigger tyres, slightly longer stroke shocks and so on..
Now we want to get into a bit more detail...
As a part of this we want to know if all the AE** FWD CV joints and shafts are interchangeable and if so, ..are there any shafts that are known to be longer than the AE95's?

I'll be heading out to a wreckers to do some measuring myself.
Thought it would be good to ask here also.

[PrettyCoolWagon]

hmmmnn.. never thought I'd post an unanswered question in Toymods!

Have popped the same question to a number of CV joint shaft suppliers through ebay... Hopefully will find out a bit more.

[JP]

the AE95's use an E series box, so have different inner CV's to the other FWD AE9x's

[PrettyCoolWagon]

That's true JP.

Is the inner CV easily seperated from the CV shaft and does it have the same spline count as any other shafts?

[wagonist]

to lift subarus, we use blocks all through the suspension/engine crossmembers/diff cradle to lift the body off the wheels. Then there is no need to muck around with shafts. Then you can fit bigger wheels/tyres to lift the whole car up again.
I could clear a 1.25L coke bottle without touching it in my 85 Wagon.

Are you sure that there is a need to get longer shafts?
The mid 80s Leones had height adjustable suspension whereby you could wind up the lower spring seat by 50mm. This caused problems with CV angles (Leone's are on the limit in standard form) and splitting boots, but never had a length issue.

If you still want to pursue it, you'll need to work out how much longer you want them, then take the shafts to a driveshaft place and ask them to mix & match the inner & outer CVs with the lengths you want.
I recently installed an Elantra gearbox into my Excel (because I could get an LSD for it). This box has a 20mm wider diff & so I needed shorter shafts (and thicker than the Excel's). A drvieshaft place in Sydney was able to find the necessary parts to put them together.
Cost $90 for the short one & $180 for the longer.

[PrettyCoolWagon]

Subaru's flat 4 engines are set up quite differently to the AE** series transverse mounted A series engines.
I've entertained various blocks throughout the sub-frame cross-member area. However due to the AE95's engine mounts the engine still sits in the same position and would otherwise require modified engine mounts to lower it down. (good for lower centre of gravity/handling) Which I have also contemplated and so far have decided not to pursue.
Aside from that I want to increase the length of shock stroke and spring height. So although blocks may have some benefits, they aren't really what I'm looking for.

You're right about the CV drive shafts though..
I contacted several suppliers already. While I won't quote all the useless replies I got, I did get one good one:

Jed, the AE-92 LH is 24mm longer and the AE-101 LH is 35mm longer
though im not sure if the inners are interchangable.If your desperate
i will try for you though it would mean youd have to pay for 4 shafts
as they will be stripped to make the pair.Hope this helps.
Regards Ausparts.

Having just been out to my wagon that has the motor pulled out of it. I took a close look at the shaft end and all that holds the inner CV in place is a cir-clip.
Easy enough to remove the inner cv and fit to the AE92 or AE101 shaft ...so long as the spline count is the same.
I'm thinking, to experiment, I could pull either AE92 OR 101 SHAFTS from a wreckers or just buy new ones... They don't cost much and would be easy to on-sell at a reduced price if they didn't fit. At the very least I'll go to the wreckers and do some AE** FWD shaft measuring between the boots to find out which model has the longest of all the AE** series front drive shafts.

I know the earliest Rav4 also shared it's CV's with the AE95 so there may also be some options with later model Rav4's

[shrike]

The celica drive shafts are the same I know for a fact st185 and st205 shafts fit in both ae111 hubs and the e series gearbox not sure if there much longer then factory ae95 shafts tho havent had a set to compare with

[wagonist]

When trying to do the Excel shafts, I went to the wreckers & I was pulling shafts out of a few cars to compare on the ground.
Excel manual & auto, Accent manual & auto, Lantra, Elantra, Mirage, Lancer (as I'm using a Mitsibishi LSD).

What angle do the shafts sit normally in an AE95?
How much are you planning on lifting?

And yes, I understand the engine setup will be different because of the transverse engine layout, but the principle is to space out everything that the suspension & engine & box is bolted to, to lower them. So all of the crossmembers then.

Have you thought about the steering tie rod ends? If you think that the shafts need lengthening (which I still say is highly unlikely unless you've planning on trying to lift it by 3 inches or more), then those with also need lengthening otherwise you won't be able to get the alignment right.

[PrettyCoolWagon]

thanks Shrike - will be measuring all the cars that either had C & E series boxes OR used the all-trac system.

Steve, I know exactly what you mean about the principal of spacing out everything... I'm not ruling it out completely.. Spacing engine mount connections etc... When I began looking at the left and right engine mounts, things looked a bit tricky, but I'll take on board what you're saying, go back and take another look / contemplate options some more..
I was thinking of keeping the left and right engine mounts standard, fitting longer stroke springs and shocks and spacing the cross-member sub-frame down to correct the angle of the wishbone. This is where I started to consider longer CV drive shafts to also help correct angle, ...and you are right.., I'll have to unscrew my tie rod ensd to see how much thread is still available for adjustment... or else search for something slightly longer as well.

Same with the sway bar, if I drop the sub frame down.., I might have to weld extensions on the ends ... No biggie...
I'm thinking 3-4 inches which I know no-one has done with the AE95 before, but I have had serious consultations with suspension shops about this including spacing down the drive shafts mounts, modifying the panhard rod and extending the rear trailing arms to name but a few of the mod's required.
being quoted 4k by one company who were serious about doing the work. Although I'm a complete noob to modyfying cars, I decided I'd look into it myself as I have a welder fabricator, general engineering/maintenance background.

Having a look through your links I think you'd like what I'm doing with the wagon as I draw my inspiration from fast 4's, 4wd shows and rally.
Currently building the 7AGZE and have purchased a new cusco rear lsd.

The idea is to do all the research and testing myself, document it and present it to an engineer prior to completing the build.

[PrettyCoolWagon]

Took a closer look at the left & right engine mounts.. Seems feasible to make some spacers between the mounts and the engine that would drop the engine down a bit.
(AE95 engines drop out of the engine bay from underneath)
So with spacers fitted wherever necessary throughout the sub-frame and engine mounts, using longer high tensile bolts to make up the new difference in length, raising the body up is do-able.

The only thing left to adjust is the reach and angle of the steering gear.
As mentioned above there are longer CV drive shafts that are a likely swap, which leaves the tie rods.

I was reading the latest 'fast-fours' today and happened across an article for drifters on increasing steering lock by using spacers.
Basically the spacer is machined from a bar of billet steel with a female thread in one end and a male thread in the other and is fitted between the steering rack and tie rod.
No-one makes them for front wheel drives, let alone the AE95 4wd but getting a spacer made up from the appropriate steel to go either between the rack and tie rod OR tie rod and tie rod end should be straight forward.

Fit some bigger wheels and tyres and some longer springs and shocks and I'll be a happy man.

"Yes" ...larger overall wheel diameter will change speedometer reading.
There are ways around this too, which revolve around fitting a different toothed gear on the end of the speedo cable at the gearbox end...

Thanks for input guys..
Happy to hear any more thoughts / questions / feedback..

Once the work begins I'll post pics