Whats involved in building Race engine

[SYC02T]

Whats involved in building a race motor, i am looking to go from a street based turbo'd 2tg and want to get some reliability when i start to do hill climbs, sprint, drag and track days.

What are the little tricks for those bigger boost applications. Do i build a motor as you would a NA motor, like linishing rods, deburing etc

Know any good web sources?

I would be looking to push it a bit more along the lines of what YelloRolla has done, Care to share any of your tips.

[celicapain]

how deep are your pockets?

[The Real Roadrunner]

build is same as NA but a few specs are different.
how bout get jason to build you a motor, at least you know he has experience and power to back it up.
cheers
linden

[clubagreenie]

Race Engine = (research time + $) + (parts sourcing + $) + (machining costs + $) + (labour + $) / hopes and aspirations.

Ask Ed, I told him in the end it would be around 20k, on the weekend we sat around and roughed it out, to around 20k and thats without including his hours researching, drawing, designing, crunching numbers on rod length/stroke ratios, piston designs. And it's just for the occasional track day, wait till we get serious.

[Billzilla]

Well to give you an idea, the cylinder head alone on the new engine I'm building will be over $3,000. Then there's the titanium conrods, custom forged pistons, etc.
Not cheap.

[rollin]

a engine and money and a supercheap auto catalogue

[SYC02T]

celicapain - thanks for you insightful input.

The Real Roadrunner - not a bad idea, might hit him with the question.

But i would like to know what you should do, so myself and others can ask serious, probing and intelligent questions when looking to find someone to do some work. I am looking to push my engine and not everyone knows what is achievable or even works on these engines. (2TG for me)

I know a few people out here do have a vast amount of knowledge on this subject for work or even track, I was just trying to incite them to put some of the more obscure points up for us all to learn.

I personally would like to know some useful info of how to get from ~ 125 hp/L to the next level in power and reliability (sure reliability costs/ not the point, still want to know), and I do not just mean throw a big bloody turbo on and hope / wait for it to hit boost. I have already done the basics like, linish, shot peen, o-ring, copper head gasket, change compression ratio, forged pistons, port match, paid attention to piping (IE. minimise size changes) etc. I have to keep in mind it needs be driven on the street, so a compromise needs to be achieved.

PS, I will not be aiming for 400hp+ like I have seen FJ20's etc pull time and time again.

[celicapain]

Race Engine = (research time + $) + (parts sourcing + $) + (machining costs + $) + (labour + $) X hopes and aspirations.

[SYC02T]

you buggers all wrote at the same time as me.

clubagreenie - Could you post us some incite into the roughed out plan that was done, please don't just say it cost $, not everyone on here is after the cheapest upgrade, if I am choosing between 2 items and the more expensive item has extra features that i will use, or better build quality etc i will most probably take the expensive one most times if it fits my needs.

Sorry not just aimed at you ,

Please all (I don't think i am alone here) I would rather No response to a question, than keep on getting 'it will cost'. If time is taken to write a response it may as well be useful, concise and with facts please guys/girls.


Billzilla, That is the sort of info i want to know, if someone wants to go all out; of course it is going to cost big $. A nice saying is 'Fast costs - How fast can you afford', This is what i am trying to establish. I may find i need to spend that money to get to a goal or realise for my personal use i can skimp here but defiantly need that over there or even decide that i cannot justify an unrealistic goal and have to reassess to something more sedate.

So for $3000 of head work, what do you get. What sort of block work you be needed to get the most from the $ spent in the head. etc.

Thanks.

PS For the record, I do respect your genuine input

[hosking1991]

a engine and money and a supercheap auto catalogue

please say something useful, or don't say anything at all please

[Billzilla]

Billzilla, That is the sort of info i want to know, if someone wants to go all out; of course it is going to cost big $. A nice saying is 'Fast costs - How fast can you afford', This is what i am trying to establish. I may find i need to spend that money to get to a goal or realise for my personal use i can skimp here but defiantly need that over there or even decide that i cannot justify an unrealistic goal and have to reassess to something more sedate.

So for $3000 of head work, what do you get. What sort of block work you be needed to get the most from the $ spent in the head. etc.

You want 125hp/litre from a 2TG, so that's 200hp.
That's quite possible, but not easy. You'll need to set a sesible rev limit, such as something like 9,000rpm and build the head & bottom end around that.
The tricky bit will be getting the valves & valve springs to hang together at high revs for as long as you want them to, and that's what costs a lot. You need to spend the money on the good bits so they don't fail. All the 2TG's are quite old now, so you'd be needing new conrods, etc. If you use an old crank, it'd have to be very carefully checked for cracks and straightness, etc.

And all that is just a small part of it ...

[SYC02T]

I already have 196.6 hp at the wheels on 11psi and 6500rpm limit.on its first run in tune, which incidentally i left to rich b4 i got it tuned and the rings did not seal properly. Hence the reason i am looking at going bigger while it is out again

things like gapless rings yes / no
options in valves, is titanium essential, other options
3 angled valves
Guides
Valve springs

As you say not easy getting it all to hang together, where else can i go to get this sort of info. It must be written some where

[takai]

Billzilla has answered as if you were going to stay NA. Having an NA engine hang together at 200hp is far different to having a turbo engine hang together.

Bigger valves almost always help, and stronger valve springs help to hold the valves off your pistons at high RPM. However, you may want to look at decompressing it and shovelling the boost in.

[wilbo666]

Whats involved in building a race motor, i am looking to go from a street based turbo'd 2tg and want to get some reliability when i start to do hill climbs, sprint, drag and track days.

What are the little tricks for those bigger boost applications. Do i build a motor as you would a NA motor, like linishing rods, deburing etc

Know any good web sources?

Bill, he is going to use a Turbo....not sure if you were thinking along thoes lines?!

Cheers
Wilbo

[oldcorollas]

to put it basically, as Bill suggests.. you build a motor for RPM first.. and power/boost as a second consideration (not always far behind tho).

if you want 9000rpm, you need to lighten the valve train and reduce losses.

if you just want 200hp with boost, then you can lower the rpm, and build it to not fail. ie, remove points of failure or over-engineer them.
the key to making power is efficiency... key to making it last is removing weaknesses...
oh and stuff like bering clearances, coolign etc

edit: and work out the target boost...
choose the engine power wanted.. then calculate the torque at your desired RPM, then work out what boost is needed (at say 90%VE) to make that.. etc...