what do fuels contain?

[toymad]

and Finally...

Mag wheel cleaners are interesting!

Applied Chemicals K1400 Mag Cleaner
Contains mostly phosphoric acid 0-15%
and as Old Corollas said, HF 0-5%

BUT,

Septone Mag Cleaner has no HF, it is just an aqueous solution of
Alkaline salts 10-30%
Dipropylene glycol, methyl ether 0-10%
Ingredients not known to be hazardous 0-10%
Sodium Hydroxide 1%

So I'd be using Septone if I could (HF eats your bones!)

[lumpy]

Lets not get carried away though - something with a low concentration of HF is very unlikely to kill you (unless you drink loads of it/inject yourself with it etc). With normal precuations (goggles and rubber gloves) it's perfectly fine to use. Plus the mag wheel cleaners with HF in them work bloody well!

Concentrated HF is tremendously dangerous stuff - it will eat straight through your skin and gets into your bones and can kill you very quickly. Chemists have died from spilling HF onto themselves - even jumping under an emergency shower / bath won't stop HF burning through you if it's concentrated enough.

Polyglycol-ethyl ester is classified as non-hazardous because (funnily enough) it's not hazardous. In fact poly-glycols, and polyethylene glycol are common industrial chemicals.

Check out your shampoo ingredients for a list of interesting chemicals - most contain methyl or chloro isothiazolonone - biocides known to cause sensitisation on skin contact if concentration is high enough!

Anyway...back to the petrol part of the thread!

I found this good article which gives a bit of insight into petrol chemistry
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/leadtet/leadh.htm

[SYC02T]

HF is nasty stuff,

There is a large enough quantity of it in the pickling paste we use for polishing stainless steel. If you do get it on you, you need calcium injections on hand to inject so it will eat that more than your bones.

[The Last Streetfighter]

From Jan 1 this year all petrols are supposed to contain less than 1% Benzene. BP's Kwinana refinery has been meeting this level for about 5 years. All the other refineries in OZ have had to do major projects to meet this goal.

You will find HF listed in many brick and tile cleaners.

[toymad]

Lets not get carried away though - something with a low concentration of HF is very unlikely to kill you (unless you drink loads of it/inject yourself with it etc). With normal precuations (goggles and rubber gloves) it's perfectly fine to use. Plus the mag wheel cleaners with HF in them work bloody well!

True - the same is also true for benzene and other additives in petrol. Provided you aren't sniffing it / constantly washing hands in it etc. you'll be fine... The key is knowing that the stuff contains something hazardous in the first place

[oldcorollas]

even low levels of HF can cause you serious problems.

it doesn't really burn the skin that much (tho it does do that also), but the molecule is small enough to be absorbed through the skin.
once inside the body it does a few things..but the main issue is that the flouride iosn react inside your cells, disrupt their functions, and then move to the next cell (to put it very very basically), so that even a small amount, untreated, can cause severe pain and necrosis (ie your flesh dying inside you). often it will occur UNDER fingernails, without the fingernail being affected.

even small concentrations can kill you. it depends on the amount of body surface area it affects.. low concentration x high surface area = death.
high concentration x as little as 2.5% of your body surface area CAN (and has) kill.

it's not about drinking it or sniffing it, splashing on skin/eyes will IMMEDIATELY absorb it into your body, and then you should seek medical help. if you wear proper protective equipment and DON'T get any one your skin/face/eyes (splashing), sure you will be ok...
BUT WHY TAKE THAT RISK???????

just because it is commonly used doesn't mean it is safe. ever seen brickies with chronic dermatitis and pain in their hands? it's not from the concrete dust (dry hands is, but not pain)....

anyway, i really really don't want to se people talking down the danger of HF. Unless you are aware of it'S dangers, and have been trained what to do in emergency, it really is better to avoid these products. (at uni we would not have been able to use it at all if we were not so close to a hospitable and always had a school car available for use)

if it's so safe.... spray some on your arm then tell us where to send the flowers

edit:

Lets not get carried away though - something with a low concentration of HF is very unlikely to kill you (unless you drink loads of it/inject yourself with it etc).

i for one would prefer to avoid being injured. it's not just about death, it's about acute and chronic pain, chronic illness, and potential loss of body parts.... sure you may not die, but it's no fun with no fingers...

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

after seeing that image, i want to stay in a plastic bubble and never go any chemicals again

[lumpy]

I have sprayed mag wheel cleaner on my arms! By accident of course and I'm still alive. (doesn't mean I wasn't a little worried though ) I must admit I was suprised to see it on the contents of the mag cleaner bottle when I bought it. However it is a commercially available product, and does have to conform to poisons/hazardous/dangerous goods labelling requirements and laws. But there is safer ways to clean your mags for sure.

Brickies dermatitis is usually cement chromate dermatitis - most brickies I've seen/worked with use hydrochloric acid to clean down brickwork. That said, HF is still used for some cleaning and more commonly used for glass and ceramic etching and metal polishing/pickling as mentioned above.

People do need to be aware of the hazards they face when using a product/chemical at home.

Since this has gone waaaaaay off-topic, perhaps we should start a new one (and stickyed as well) on OH&S issues in the workshop?.

There's plenty of activities people get up to in their sheds that are pretty stupid and likely to be hazards to their health in the long term.

[lumpy]

Back to the petrol - check this report out!
http://www.deh.gov.au/atmosphere/fue...ane-report.pdf

Goes into specific detail for many octane improving options, and associsated health and environmental impacts.

[oldcorollas]

nice find!

i was amused to read the term "Hooch" in a scientific discussion paper..

also, a 60L tank of 10% ethanol fuel contains $210 worth of beverage alcohol??? farrrk

increase of 1 octane number requires 2% increase in aromatics?