gapless rings

[hypo23]

just wanted too know if anyone on here has used gapless rings, and what there thought of them were, including bedding them in ect, any previous experiences they would like too share.

[Forcefed6]

You having problems with them again?

[celicaboy_2000]

I had ago at using gapless rings but I had no luck BUT I think this was due to setting up a aftermarketc computer on a freshly built motor dumping to much fuel in and washing the bores... Never seen 2ft flames leep from my exhaust before

Got the computer sorted out and tried to bed them in but it was to late, so I rebuilt with std ACL rings. But I have heard that you need to be very patient when bedding them in.

[jeffro ra28]

Gapless rings.
We use them in every engine that is built at our workshop.

Specially with high fuel, high boost applications.

We typicaly run 28psi boost and the fuel supplied with this would empty a 60 litre tank in a matter of minutes. Well 3 laps to be exact. So its very important that the fuel with this amount of boost doesnt pass the rings and get in the dry sump.

If a proper ring filer is used. They are a good thing. However much more labour intensive then regular rings.

I have fitted probly 15 engines with file to fit gapless rings since i have been working at this shop. So feel free to ask away.

[jeffro ra28]

May i add, almost every engine was dynoed so run in conditions could be controlled. If they didnt get dynoed they were simply worked a little harder then usuall for run in.

The most recent problem we came across was the moly compound chipping out of the top ring(not unique to gapless rings). However this was in extreme cylinder pessure situations and making 1800hp at an ADR of %87. So its probly expected to ware out a bit quicker.

[hypo23]

jamie,
at first ya i was still having a few issues, made it too dubbo and back though, even if i did leave a little smoke trail everywhere i went lol
have been talking too tim a bit from wholesale performance who was having a lot of the same issues i was, as you know, he gave me a few things too try after speaking to the ring suppliers ect, and ya it made a shit load of difference its 99% better now but still a touch smokey on idol if it sits there long enough, changed the oil today and doing the sequence again, just trying to get it as good as i can before i get the final tune with some boost up its arse.
tims done this after about 3000km and said his came good with literaly no smoke at all mines only done about 1000km so hopefully it should come to being near perfect fingers crossed.

so ya just wanted too hear if anyone else has had any experiances with them they wanted too share, ive spoken too a few people and there opinions were that they are a bitch too bed in the oil ring but if you can bed them in properly they are one of the best types of rings you can get, anyone share too coment?

[hypo23]

have done this twice now the first time was trying too run the in on an absulute shit tune and ya fuel washed the bores, you live and learn i guess its just a pain up the arse, this time round it seems all good though was just haveing a few issues when the car was sat idoling it would blow blue smoke a bit, ive just about got it all sorted i think, and will be ready for that final tune soon i just wanted too put a few more ks on it too make sure its all good it is getting better the more i drive it.

jethro, can you explain the filing process as this is something i didnt do and as im aware these rings i bought didnt require.
and not going to make anywhere near the power you making in those boats

[jeffro ra28]

Basically, there is no such thing as a pre gapped ring in my field. It doesnt matter if we buy an off the shelf forged piston, it comes with file to fit rings regardless

It allows the engine builder to custom file the rings to suit. Nitrous, Blown, alcohol, turbo, natural are all considerations that the engine builder takes in to come out with the correct ring gap. Most of which revolves around cylinder pressure and temperature.

May i asked, what brand of piston and what brand of rings you used?

[jeffro ra28]

The ring filing process.
The rings come with a very small gap to begin with, way samller then you would want to run. The rings are then all fitted parallel to the bore and "out of the packet" ring gap is measured and recorded. Then using the proper filing tool/machine. The rings are filed to the custom ring gap, then re fitted to the bore and checked. Once final the ring ends are de-burred and smoothed of. Then fitted to the pistons.

I did have the ring gap specs as per fuel, boost, bore size etc. But i lost it! Could get it at work tomorow

[thechuckster]

Go find someone who subscribes to RACE magazine, there was a handy bunch of short articles in recent issues about rings in racing engines.

[hypo23]

pistons are forged je with total seal rings

[tooch]

Interesting that you guys mention this. My engine has gapless rings, and I've got an ongoing oil consumption/smoke problem. It ONLY seems to do it when the engine is at operating temperature, and the car sits idle say at the lights for a few minutes, then take off. It only smokes after you actually take off, not just sitting there.

Due to some f*ck arsing around, the engine was run in/tuned with an aftermarket ECU with a crap tune.

Does this sound like a rings problem? I was pointing my finger at the valve stem seals.

[hypo23]

yep sounds like rings i also thought i could have pinch a valve stem seal or something too but the second time the engine came out i sent the head too be checked and all was good.
mine is only a bit smokey after it has been idoling for a bit too, you just get a bit of a puff as you excellerate away other than that no smoke at all through any driving conditions, too my understanding its the middle oil ring not bedding in, its oil getting cought inbetween the top and bottom rings and not letting the middle one bed in properly, or as you said and what ive done too is running it in on a shit tune and just fuel washing the bores, with mine compression is all good with no blow by at all.
i dont know jeffro might be able too explain things better as he seems too deal with these a bit.
pm me and ill try too explain a couple of things too try and make it better, or give performance wholesalers in brisbane a call and speak too tim and he can explain things a whole lot better than me.

[love ke70]

yep sounds like rings i also thought i could have pinch a valve stem seal or something too but the second time the engine came out i sent the head too be checked and all was good.
mine is only a bit smokey after it has been idoling for a bit too, you just get a bit of a puff as you excellerate away other than that no smoke at all through any driving conditions, too my understanding its the middle oil ring not bedding in, its oil getting cought inbetween the top and bottom rings and not letting the middle one bed in properly, or as you said and what ive done too is running it in on a shit tune and just fuel washing the bores, with mine compression is all good with no blow by at all.
i dont know jeffro might be able too explain things better as he seems too deal with these a bit.
pm me and ill try too explain a couple of things too try and make it better, or give performance wholesalers in brisbane a call and speak too tim and he can explain things a whole lot better than me.

i have the same problem in my 1g but with ACL rings.
i have been avoiding the possibility of it being rings and blaming the turbo that scrapes the housing. time will tell
mine too, only happens when the motor is HOT and idles for a good while.
with the new oil pump and extra pressure i hope this problem does not get worse.
if not, i cant wait to do another rebuild

[RAd28]

hey all, i'm half planning on using gappless rings on my 18RG which i'm getting from the ever knowledgable Jethro. seems alot less straight forward then i expected, what sort of things do i have to look out for when installing the rings? obviously i'm missing alot of the basics of this kinda thing? any where i can look to find some of those basic questions?

cheers