For the love of a tractor engine: The life and times of the 18R-G

[timbosaurus]

I know what your saying Omegaman. If you're not comfortable doing it, then just stick with what u've got for the time being

Gezz, both the above ECus sound like a night mare compared to what im going through.

Not really mate, when you think how long have you spent with your head in a wiring diagram to get where you are so far. And you've still got a bit to go, and you'll still end up without the ability to properly tune or quickly diagnose with a computer.

But, with limited reading into this, a stand alone requires a lot more work, spend and knowledge to get going.

work - you're right, it's more work the first time you do it for sure.
spend - probably, but you'll get a much better result
knowledge - most certainly!!! And this, I believe, is where the 2 groups of followers separate. Those who want to learn, and those that just want it done.

[river]

Hi,

Agreed that you may learn more, and certainly have the chance to fuck-up more, with an MS opposed to the SM4. So it's horses for courses.

For me I just wanted it done and, at the time, the SM4 offered more than the MS. Don't know what the MS offers now, but I'm sure it's been upgraded (like most are on a periodical basis).

If you really want to learn then you'd have carbies and get to play around with them. Once you set up your ECU then it's basically a set and forget system. So, you get the one-off learning curve, a bit of fun (or despair) tuning it, and then that's basically it.

I look at carbies now like I look at old vinyl records. It's older technology but, when done well, works as brilliantly as anything new. And I enjoy the ritual of listening to a record. That means turning it over to hear the other side, cleaning the needle, etc. Carbies offer me the time to tune and play around, adjust the timing etc. So yeah, some things I just want to be done, and other things I enjoy being involved and getting my hands dirty.

In any event, in this thread we have all forms of 18R-G and heaps of different mods, and that's why this is up there with the best threads in this forum.

seeyuzz
river

[timbosaurus]

So if carbies to the RG, are like vinyl LP's to the ear... then what is the 1G?

[Omegaman]

Timbo.
I guess what i'm saying is, yes i would luv to learn install and tune myself.

But getting my head around what i have now, though i haven't done it Yet, is easier because i know the where to start looking on some issues. ie fuel - pumps relays, wiring and so on.

Back to basics is easier. The engine has 1 harness and 4 connections to original harness to make it work. Any problem inbetween must be connection, operational problem.

Where as Stand alone does come under the Knowledge base, how it all works, with what and volts and paramaters, how each sensors fits in to the whole scheme.etc

The customs stuff, like brakets for trigger wheels and coil packs and map sensors etc, are all just items that i dont know what to mate with.

For anyone reading this who's is contemlating doing it, like me. Im ok with fixing cars and back yard mechanic stuff.
But i'm only on the edge of going over to the stand alone side. If i fuk it up it will mean send to a mechanic to diagnose and fix.
Not prepared to do that yet. I wanna fix this.
Then drive it while i then study up on the next phase that i'm comfortable and prepared to do.

i sound like a Drama queen. lol
But i cant be the only guy that thinks like this. Guys out there must get overwhelmed by some of the knowledge that come through this forum.
i know i was one of them.
But slowly after reading threads, i got my hands dirty and achieved things like re painting the car, brake conversions, stereo installations, engine re building plus more.
So, next will be fit and tuning aftermarket ECU. yeh!!!

is this what yr talking about the Ms V3. just having a read of it. sounds easier cause of the coils not req'd, can use normal dizzy .Thats if i read it right.
Though i dont quiet understand the 5 amp maxpart with one low imp inj .lol
Anyways, im researching it, till the weekends problem solving, then we'll see.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Megasquir...item19d4e53cce

[timbosaurus]

Yup, but that the MICROsquirt, not the MEGAsquirt. they are different.

I'll be oversimplifying it, but basically the Microsquirt is a slightly stripped down, pre-assembled in a sealed case, megasquirt 2. By stripping it down it's made it smaller and cheaper, but you will need to externally add a couple of things:
1 - an external MAP sensor - MAP - GM 3 Bar MAP Sensor DIYAutoTune.com
2 - a coil driver - you either use a coil with a built-in driver, or buy a normal solid state coil driver, or get creative and make one out of a BIP373 and a resistor - Bosch BIP373 Coil Driver Mod Kit DIYAutoTune.com

Then, no matter what aftermarket ECU you use you'll need:
1 - an external IAT sensor (same with all megasquirts, and other ECU's as well) - GM Open Element IAT Sensor with Connector DIYAutoTune.com
2 - a throttle position sensor (not a throttle position SWITCH like the factory 18RG has) - the 22RE throttle body has a sensor and bolts on to the RG EFI manifold
3 - 22R or other electronic dizzy to fit the 18R. Whilst you *can* get it to work with the points dizzy, there are some issues doing it that way.
3 - adequate fusing and relays

Those ebay prices look pretty good, but I always buy from DIYautotune - very reliable. I can see that the ebay seller has cheap MAP sensors, but they are the Chinese copies (although I haven't heard anything wrong with them), which is why they are cheaper than the DIYautotune ones which are genuine GM.

[Omegaman]

Thanks Timbo.

I'm warming to it..

i just watched 4 youtube vids on megasquirt.. not as mind blowing as i thought.

[jabbatron]

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[jabbatron]

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[river]

Hi,

My reply was based upon doing the MS yourself, as opposed to a turnkey solution.

Unless you have the necessary skills you have more chance to fuck up with a DIY versus turnkey. You want to pay more for the ms3-pro or an SM4 then that's fine, and less chance to stuff up.

It's not an attack at MS, but generally any DIY project will bring more risk (in doing something wrong) as opposed to a turnkey solution. This holds true for house mods, car mods, computer mods, amplifier mods and just about anything else, including ECU set up.

I am a qualified electronics technician, and I'm sure I could whack in an MS without too many issues, and soldering wires is bread and butter stuff to me. The reason I went SM4 was, at the time it was a superior product and had better support. Furthermore, I get more enjoyment building and programming microprocessor/controller systems and repairing/modding old amplifiers then fart arsing about with an ECU. So I go for the turnkey ECU solution and pay for someone to get it installed and running. This was done so I can concentrate on the amplifiers and micros, which is what I like doing.

seeyuzz
river

[jabbatron]

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[river]

Hi,

The Op who is installing his ECU is having issues. He is DIYing it. More chance for mistakes. This is a fact on DIY stuff, and moreso if it's the first time you have attempted such work. It isn't just getting the unit setup and delivered, but also the fitment and connections.

I thought it I was pretty clear on why I didn't do it myself, so let me make it even more plain. I don't care to play with ECUs and set them up and spend time installing and getting the engine to run nice. There are more experienced people than me who do this, and I am more than happy to have them do the job. I work hard and my play time is limited, so I focus on those things that interest me, and installing an ECU isn't one of those things.

I don't throw dispersions on what you do for fun/hobby in relation to whatever work/world skills you have, so please keep you "backwards" comments to yourself.

seeyuzz
river

[masterofsinanju]

Maybe I've missed something, but for Omegaman, isn't the point that he is unsure what is actually the problem?

Replacing the ECU may not fix the problem. Seems to me, that he either starts from scratch with the factory ECU in order to isolate the problem or he goes aftermarket ECU of whatever flavour which may not solve the issue and he goes back through everything else again anyhow.

Is ECU swap a bit of a red herring at this point? (although I like the idea of the ready made SM3, even though I know I'd cock it up and end up paying for a fix).

I'm with River on the things that you do for fun and the things you pay someone else to do even if you know how, but don't enjoy it.

Megasquirt thread seem to have a lot of useful info, even if I don;t see that the issue has currently been narrowed to the ECU.

[jabbatron]

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[jabbatron]

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[timbosaurus]

Great discussion, I think we've covered everything.

we're all beating the same drum... different horses for different courses. Everyone's prolly getting sick of it now.