3T GTE - Wasted spark??

[3t-RA40]

3t-RA40,

You have done exactly what I have been hoping would work for ages!!! Legend

I am in the process of purchasing a Haltech E6X and was hoping I could setup the Hall effect sensor the way you have in the existing dizzy housing.

Was this hard to setup, or a matter of bolt on the trigger wheel and sensor and way it goes?

BTW are you running Haltech Coils with this setup?

Rob

Everything to do with the computer change was purchase from Haltech, coils, ijnighters, hall sensor, tps, o2, etc.
Basically when you strip the guts out of the dizzy your left with a shaft and a plate at the bottom with some small locators sticking up. Had the alloy unit made up which house the magnets, you then have to get the engine to 70 degrees before TDC (top dead centre), then line the hall sensor up with the trigger magnet (read the Haltech instructions very closely), maked my locators, drilled holes to suit and almost away you go. I have some photos of the dizzy gutted out but there on my work computer, will post tommorrow.
Cheers,
Neil.

[rob1]

I don't mean to hi jack the thread, it is still on topic, but I have a question for one of the more experianced boys that have answered in this thread.
I have a 3tgte but run the 2tg head. I have 2 x hyundai twin post coils and the haltech e8.
My question is this: Can I run a CAS pickup on the front of the crank and run wasted spark or do I have to find 720deg rotation somewhere else on the engine? The reason I ask is because I didn't want to run any sort of dizzy. I have the dizzy blank fitted to the block and seeing as I have the 2tg head I don't have the head mounted dizzy like the 3tgte head.
People have told me I still need 720 but I thought if I run a 4 tooth on the front of the crank with 1 home signal then I can run wasted spark and avoid having to have 720 deg pickup?
I can get my hands on a chopper disc as above pretty easily and also the pick-up.

Hope this makes sense.
Rob.

[3t-RA40]

Rob1, ring Haltech and talk to Scott. I had a few discussions with him when doing my setup and he was very helpful. If I remember correctly to run direct fire/wasted spark I had to run a dizzy trigger and not a crank trigger. Will try and find the notes I made to confirm.
Cheers,
Neil.

[rob1]

Thanks Neil. I've been thinking about it, and I can't see why I wouldn't be able to run wasted spark with the setup, but the sequential injection would definately need 720 deg. I would imagine.

If so then I will just go a modified dizzy similar to yours. Did Haltech modify your dizzy or are just the pickups etc from them?

[3t-RA40]

The hall sensor and magnets are from Haltech the rest I done myself.
I'll try and find the photos I took when I did the mods.
Cheers,
Neil.

[The Witzl]

Neil,

very keen to see the full method of construction within your dissy, there are possibilities of expanding this into a wider range of applications (outside of haltech and 3TGTEs) depending on how these bits are constructed.

Eagerly awaiting pics!

[TA-022]

so if were not running twin spark per cylinder any more what the heck was the benifit of it in the first place?

i imagined the best way was 1 twin coil per cylinder to fire the twin spark as per factory setup? the twin post only get the only set of trigger wires correct? so a 4 output ecu and 4 twin post would be fine?

trying to understand the method behind the madness here

[TA22 GT]

so if were not running twin spark per cylinder any more what the heck was the benifit of it in the first place?

i imagined the best way was 1 twin coil per cylinder to fire the twin spark as per factory setup? the twin post only get the only set of trigger wires correct? so a 4 output ecu and 4 twin post would be fine?

trying to understand the method behind the madness here

I agree, however I'm told that running one twin coil to both plugs in each cylinder may cause the coil to fail due to it trying to create 2 sparks under compression. The other way is to go wasted spark, so you fire one side of 2 coils to the same cylinder and the remaining 2 sparks are wasted on the exhaust stroke of the opposing cylinder. This way each twin coil only creates one spark under compression instead of 2.

Has anyone run both leads from a twin post coil to one cylinder? I also can't see why this would change the load too much on the coil. Maybe I should try it and see what happens....

Cheers,
Simon

[TA22 GT]

Everything to do with the computer change was purchase from Haltech, coils, ijnighters, hall sensor, tps, o2, etc.
Basically when you strip the guts out of the dizzy your left with a shaft and a plate at the bottom with some small locators sticking up. Had the alloy unit made up which house the magnets, you then have to get the engine to 70 degrees before TDC (top dead centre), then line the hall sensor up with the trigger magnet (read the Haltech instructions very closely), maked my locators, drilled holes to suit and almost away you go. I have some photos of the dizzy gutted out but there on my work computer, will post tommorrow.
Cheers,
Neil.

Nice work Neil, now we are getting some good discussion with this thread....

Is there any benefit of a hall effect sensor over using a 24 tooth wheel with the extra reference tooth?
I'm thinking of either doing what you have done or using a 24 tooth wheel from a 3SGTE or similar as a CAS.
I did also look at using a sensor on the crank, but I think it is better to have 720 degree referencing to allow for direct fire.

Cheers,
Simon

[3t-RA40]

I agree, however I'm told that running one twin coil to both plugs in each cylinder may cause the coil to fail due to it trying to create 2 sparks under compression. The other way is to go wasted spark, so you fire one side of 2 coils to the same cylinder and the remaining 2 sparks are wasted on the exhaust stroke of the opposing cylinder. This way each twin coil only creates one spark under compression instead of 2.

That's what the Haltech guy told me, basically less load on the coil.

Is there any benefit of a hall effect sensor over using a 24 tooth wheel with the extra reference tooth?
I'm thinking of either doing what you have done or using a 24 tooth wheel from a 3SGTE or similar as a CAS.
I did also look at using a sensor on the crank, but I think it is better to have 720 degree referencing to allow for direct fire.

I don't think there was going to be much difference between the two, I just thought this was going to be a easier solution. I think from memory the the 24 tooth might have been a bit more acturat.
Cheers,
Neil.

[TA22 GT]

That's what the Haltech guy told me, basically less load on the coil.


Neil.

So I assume your Haltech ECU is sending 2 signals out at exactly the same time? Eg 1 and 4 together to create 2 compresson and 2 wasted sparks?

Very interested to see your pics of this mod.

Cheers,
Simon

[thechuckster]

I have a 3tgte but run the 2tg head. I have 2 x hyundai twin post coils and the haltech e8.
My question is this: Can I run a CAS pickup on the front of the crank and run wasted spark or do I have to find 720deg rotation somewhere else on the engine? The reason I ask is because I didn't want to run any sort of dizzy. I have the dizzy blank fitted to the block and seeing as I have the 2tg head I don't have the head mounted dizzy like the 3tgte head.
People have told me I still need 720 but I thought if I run a 4 tooth on the front of the crank with 1 home signal then I can run wasted spark and avoid having to have 720 deg pickup?
I can get my hands on a chopper disc as above pretty easily and also the pick-up..

you can run waste spark from a single crank trigger with one missing teeth (e.g. motec/edis 32-1 trigger wheel).

folks also do 4-tooth cam/crank trigger with an extra home trigger (2 teeth) on the cam but you lack the resolution on the rpm.

So I assume your Haltech ECU is sending 2 signals out at exactly the same time? Eg 1 and 4 together to create 2 compresson and 2 wasted sparks?

they have to fire at the same time, only Rotary engines have the trailing spark... Rob will have to explain how the ECU is firing the coil packs (either one igniter per ECU output or otherwise)

[rob1]

i'll find out how the 3tgte was running the twin post coils on my brothers car. the guy removed it before we bought it but should be no dramas to find out some details.

*edit - it was a different setup to niels

[The Witzl]

the 24 tooth wheel will definitely be more accurate than a 4-tooth or similar numbered wheel, as the ECU doesnt have to "predict" as much where the next pulse will come in to get the correct timing for the spark signal output.

IE - the ECU will have to use less predictive mathematics (2nd order calculus) to get the same accuracy

LESS MATHS = MORE BRAINS LEFT OVER FOR OTHER STUFF.


As for the wasted spark stuff - the way Neil has explained it is correct, and i believe this is how yellorolla had his set up when he was running the 3T-GTE head (currently running 2T-G head iirc).
The comments about how the twin post coils can only make one phat spark and one w3ak spark is correct too.... this is why you would effectively have two coils for one cylinder (and it's reciprocal cylinder at exh. stroke)