Need Help Identifying My Gearbox

[AusRA28]

A year or two back I bought from an importer an 18rg with a 5sp box. The importer told me it came out of an RA25. I now most likely won't be using the motor, because I have a better condition 18rg available through a mate that has a gearbox attached, but that one was used in a hilux. He isn't sure what gearbox is attached to his, so I am trying to find out whether my gearbox is a w50 or not.

I don't have the facilities to pull the box apart, but reading the different threads about the
w5x boxes, my box fits the description of a w50 (cast/aluminium combo). But reading Wayne Stephosen's web page the RA25's were issued with a p51 gearbox. I can't find any info or pictures of a p51 on the net so I'm hoping someone here could help identify this gearbox.





Dave

[Vios-GT_07]

is it just me or does it look a lot like the P51?

looks like you should PM River...

[crowncustom]

P51 and W50 boxes do look the same.Easiest way to check is take the filler plug out and try shining a torch in the hole and see if it has cast synchros or brass.If they are cast then its a P51 if brass then its a W50.
Cheers Brett.

[AusRA28]

Ok, I found a thread started by RT104GT, where he goes through the ins and outs of the
p51 compared to the w50.
http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14907

Following suggestions from VIOS-GT 07 and also RIVER mentioned in RT104GT's thread, the first task was to look inside the oil filler hole to check the colour of the internals. The gears inside are a pewter grey colour. Secondly, RT104GT made mention of the case numbers tell the w50 and the p51 apart. Mine reads 33111-20090.

w50 = 33111-20091
p51 = 33111-20090

Would the w55/57/58 have separate part numbers listed on the case? Can anyone check?

Thanks
Dave

[Vios-GT_07]

well it did come out of a RA-25 and is bolted to an 18R-G...

that's a gem mate, i suggest you look after it as it's worth a fair bit.. (push it to river i think he's collecting them)

[crowncustom]

Would the w55/57/58 have separate part numbers listed on the case? Can anyone check?

Thanks
Dave[/QUOTE]

As to these they are a total different design as they are the alloy cased boxes.
Great to see that you have a P51 as these are becoming quite rare.
Cheers Brett.

[RT104GT]

For my money its a P51 out of a Celica GT.


W50 case has part number 33111-20091 P51 33111-20090.

There is a clear distinction between the W50 and P51.
The P51 is a slightly stronger gearbox with similar bearing design.
The main shaft gears have a tad more thickness on the P51 than the W50 and might be stronger.
It would be possibly to replace the centre main bearing by removing the rear housing in a W50 due to the mounting plate being on the rear of the centre plate but not so in the P51 which is BOLTED in from the front side.

The syncro methods and the anti-chatter scissor-gear are really the only differences.


Viewed through the inlet hole you should see the brass rings and the different 1st selector on the W50.

Whereas the P51 has a lighter fork, selector rings and alloy brake bands.

Also looking back to the main plate if you see bolt heads (12mm) that's a P51.
There is also a 10mm gap between 1st gear and the main centre bearing plate in a P51.
Again looking in through oil filler the W50 has the gear flush against the centre main plate and has no oiling nozzle.
The W50 centre main bearing is mounted from the rear.
The P51 from the front of the centre plate.

So if you can't see thru the oil hole, drop the extension housing off
If you can see a main bearing plate with four Philips head screws you have a W50.

There is nothing externally to tell the difference.



Another difference which you cannot see is the counter shaft input gear
which in the P51 has an anti-chatter scissor plate and no such thing on the W50 countershaft.

Stand it on its nose on the bellhousing.
Unbolt the bolts and lift off the rear extension housing.

If you see the main bearing and shaft held in by a plate with countersunk screws its W50

if however you just see bolt threads looking at you its a P51

and
also the 5th gear brass syncro will be obvious if its a W50

if its a P51 the selector ring will be sitting on an alloy pewter coloured brake band syncro.

Its only possible to see brass through the inlet hole if you dont rotate the gerabox so that the mucky coloured oil sticks.

However A P51 HAD NO BRASS ANYWHERE inside

[RT104GT]

Would the w55/57/58 have separate part numbers listed on the case? Can anyone check?

Thanks
Dave

As to these they are a total different design as they are the alloy cased boxes.
Great to see that you have a P51 as these are becoming quite rare.
Cheers Brett.[/QUOTE]


YES but a W55 W58 are totally different designs to the W50/P51 cvase which are identical except for one number.

W50 ends in a 1 P51 in a zero.

Just to confuse the issue.

[MWP]

Quick related question...

Okay, P51s are rarer, but are they really that much different to a W50?
Ie, if i had the pick between a P51 and a W50, both in similar condition, would it be worth paying a few more $$s for a P51?

[crowncustom]

Quick related question...

Okay, P51s are rarer, but are they really that much different to a W50?
Ie, if i had the pick between a P51 and a W50, both in similar condition, would it be worth paying a few more $$s for a P51?

If it was me I'd go the P51 as they are a better designed box and stronger than the W50 plus they are also a close ratio box.You only get a 500 RPM drop between gears where the W50 drops by 1000 RPM.Price wise it would depend on if the person who was selling it knew what the box was.
Cheers Brett.

[machschnell]

ok just pulled a 18rc and box out of a 83 hilux SR5.
on the box it has W513 and the numbers 33111-20091 . what am i looking at here , wiki doesnt show a w513 only a w51 , and all the above doesnt really tell me what it really is , did that model hilux even come out with a 5 speed originally

[4th surf]

Yes it did on the SR5 model. You'll find that while "W513" and W51 look the same the differences are internal with the gear ratios with the Hilux having a lower first and second gear ratio to the comparable box fitted to the Celica and some Coronas. The build plate on the Hilux should have a trans/axle code which will tell you what box was fitted at factory build

[machschnell]

yeah cheers bro i found that after sraping some gunk of the body , so this gear box will be the hill climb box then ;-)