R12 A/C regassing

[bansheebuzz]

The use of hydrocarbons in a/c systems is only accepted to be used in systems originally designed for it. Since all automotive systems currently not released with a hydrocarbon, it is illigal to use them.

In the near future we will see a hydrocarbon with a flame retardant for automotive use that will be accepted and passed for use. Could be a few years off thou

[Cruiser97_80]

Fark i might have to show this video to my boss

[inertia]

Can someone confirm is the converted gas is "as cold"? I know newer cars that have systems designed for the new gas are excellent. But I've been in a couple of "converted" cars and when shown a frickin hot day the aircon is useless.

Is there an operating pressure difference between the gasses?
Have I just experienced a couple of poorly done conversions?

[bansheebuzz]

r12 is a better peforing refridgerant than r134a.

Some r12 systems work fine on 134a and others struggle. The condensor plays a big effect in this and some of them are of poor desing and size to handle 134a on an extremly hot day

[mrshin]

Sometimes when retrofitting car systems, they fit a different condensor (if there is room) to try and get rid of more heat and allow the system to actually work.

[Grant]

Yes, the older condensors are not designed to be used with R12 and work inefficiently if you do. A new one is a must (I have a new small Toyota one for sale on ebay at the moment which should go cheap). Also, even if you manage to find someone to gas with R12 now what about in the future if you need it serviced; you'll be in the same position then.

The only tip is becuase R134a runs at a higher pressure it is best to get the engines thermo fan wired into the A/C circuit so it runs whenever the compressor is running.

[ajh]

Our SV21 has been redone with R134 and with a new receiver/dryer fitted.

The thermo fans come on with the A/C and run constantly, then when the engine heats up they run faster when required.

It was done 3 years ago, we've owned the car for 1 1/2 years.

The aircon in it cools the car down quicker and runs colder than the aircon in my VY commodore. ( bearing in mind, my car has 192,000 k's on it!!)

I also had my HX Kingswood converted from R12 to R134 ( also fitted a rotary compressor) and to tell the truth, the aircon was better after the conversion. ( part of this could be due to a more efficient compressor, but the "cold" factor was just as good as R12)

The performance may depend on the car, but I've found any car I've had with R134 (4 cars including the two mentioned) the aircon has worked equally as well with R12 & R134.

[Z2TT]

Hi,

Just bumping this thread back up. Has anybody else had their R12 System re-gassed with Hychill HR-12? What are your experiences?

I'm considering it.

[cambelt]

The hychill stuff is fine , what car is it for?
Dave

[Z2TT]

My car is a 1987 Toyota Soarer GZ20, It still uses the R12 System.

I see no point in spending hundreds of dollars converting to a system that uses a gas that is much more inefficient than R12 when there is non ozone depleting R12 Alternatives that can work in R12 Systems.

[cambelt]

Yep it will be fine in yr car , just make sure there is some electric fan that will come on with the A/C pump on.
Dave

[Mos]

I've had a couple of cars converted to 134 without any decrease in cooling capacity (AE86, MX83 - ask Josh about the MX83 - it "burnt").
In each case the factory airflow management was insufficient (ie the fans didn't suck enough). Upgrading to a decent (ie cover the area of the radiator) set of fans made the problem disappear. Resealing all the factory airflow seals doesn't hurt either.
Granted I don't know what would happen on a 50 degree day at idle, when stationary, but in both cases while the pressure gauges were hooked up the factory fanning was unable to keep the refrigerant pressures within operating range.

I'm not sure what people mean by "older" condensors, but from my experience anything from early 80s onwards seems to be OK, provided it has sufficient airflow.

Toyotas with factory twin thermos generally switch them onto a slow speed (series mode) when the A/C is turned on. They then switch to fast (parrallel) mode when either the radiator temp goes up or the refrigerant pressure goes up. A "mod" in such a case could be to turn them on at full speed when the A/C is switched on.

Mos.

[CrUZida]

Just to concur with the above, I found that any speeds below 50kph there was not enough airflow to keep the aircon cold, once you are above 60kph the aircon was nice and cold.

This was with AU thermo's only wired to coolant temp.
On my new car I plan to have them come on when ever the aircon is on, and the cars speed is below 55kph.

[Z2TT]

Mos by older condensors I think people mean the smaller heat exchangers used in R12 Systems, since R134a systems need larger heat exchangers as the gas is less efficient, thus needs more cooling when passing through the heat exchanger.

My Soarer 1989 that had been converted to R134a had 2 thermo fans near the heat exchanger. My 1987 Soarer that I own now that still runs an R12 system has no thermo fans, So I believe factory the Soarer Z20's came with no thermo fans.

I am getting my R12 system regassed with Hychill HR-12 this Monday. Hychill HR-12 is a drop-in replacement for R12 Systems.

Which wires would I tap into if I want to install thermo fans to only turn on when the A/C is on?

Thanks

[CrUZida]

Is HR12 as efficient as R12, as efficient as R134A, or less efficient than both?