Twin-Clutch Gearbox

[Esteban]

Does anyone know if Toyota is investigating these gearboxes? Are new Toyota's planned with this sort of arrangement? I reckon they are a cool idea! Phreaky Germans!

diag from here (bottom page)

[emp?]

they use those in F1 dont they?
Gets it into the next gear before you need it so you get an instant gear shift?

[Scourge]

I have one of these (DSG) in my Golf GTI (which is just an everyday driver). They work very well for an auto shifting box. The drive is very smooth and it makes the car alot faster than it would otherwise be especially on take off. Because of there being no hesitation between gears or loss of momentum I can quite easily surprise other traffic - I've had the odd Commonwhore driver get quite agro because they have beem obliterated from the lights by a little hatchback. The exhaust makes a wierd 'blurp' between gears as the revs change,

The only times it doesn't work quite so well is in the same circumstances as an auto wouldn't - for example if you go into a corner at speed with minimum throttle the computer doesn't know you want to downshift into second and will hold 4th or 3rd and then out of the corner it has to kick down - to add insult to injury this sometimes results in a double downshift or the box not being ready for the next gear which makes it hesitate terribly. Kick down for overtaking can also be slow if it isn't expecting it. So as good as it is it still doesn't replace the humble manual gearbox. You can shift manually of course but try shifting through 6 gears will paddles when half the time you don't even know what gear you're in and can't hear the exahaust - the gear digit is displayed in a tiny area of the dash - impossible to see quickly.

It's alot better than BMW's effort of other companies for that matter.

[joecoolmk2]

it is a MANUAL CLUTCH, not auto.

so what are the benefits of this setup???

[MS-75]

Nah dude-they talk of the DSG gearbox in that article-that's what is in both Scourges and my TDI Golfs. It's a manual type clutched gearbox, but with two clutches and a computer control over the shifts.

you get the efficiency of a manual gearbox, the constant acceleration of an auto, but without the harshness of a 'clutchless' shift.

I absolutely love it.

Sean

[peedman]

I read somewhere the Ferrari enzo's semi-auto gearbox changes at 150ms. The DSG does it in 8ms.

[Scourge]

it is a MANUAL CLUTCH, not auto.

so what are the benefits of this setup???

You correct me yet don't actually bother to read the article to understand what it is and what the advantages are. As MS-75 pointed out it is NOT a MANUAL CLUTCH. Not unless there are a breed of humans with 3 legs that I don't know about.

[JustCallMeOrlando]

Having driven a Golf GTi hard, I fell in love with this box. Shifts are smooth and stupid fast, it was like playing a video game

[oldcorollas]

there are some excellent diagrams and explanatiosn in the following link (mecano demonstration model of the DSG box )

http://www.selmec.org.uk/article_000...nsmission.aspx

[joecoolmk2]

You correct me yet don't actually bother to read the article to understand what it is and what the advantages are. As MS-75 pointed out it is NOT a MANUAL CLUTCH. Not unless there are a breed of humans with 3 legs that I don't know about.

well sorry, but it's attached to a manual gearbox in that picture. my bad. so the auto in the golf is like this??? so it's a manual that's electronically shifted very slick.

it'd have to be pretty hard on the gears then.

[Scourge]

No thats cool - I didn't actually mean to sound like I had such a bug up my arse.

It can work really well but now and then it can be a bit frustrating when it does the wrong thing - probably no different to a regular auto. It actually works it's best when pushed hard on a windy road. I go for a drive through the mountains now and then and it works like an absolute charm - blips the throttle on downshifts, holds gear and engine brakes all exaclty the way you'd want. At the limit it is so well behaved its great. Part of the problem I find is that for regular driving with small amounts of throttle it gravitates towards a ridiculous economy mode when it changes into 5th at 60 and 6th at 70. Sometimes I'll go through a shicane and the thing will be in fourth gear. You really need to tell it whos boss.

As for wear and tear I'm looking at that last picture and hoping I'll never have to pay for repairs on it...

[MS-75]

My first golf shat the DSG box inside 10,000km. It was replaced under warranty of course. They didn't even open it here in Aus-it was just sent straight back to Germany.

I test drove a DSG GTi recently and it was wicked.