Old school Front 5 stud conversion & Brake upgrade... MUST SEE

[RAd28]

Guys... i've just been given 2 weeks notice to find a new place, so i'm not gonna have the money after i've moved... so looks like i'm gonna have to miss this one too... however i'm more then happy to organise the buy for everyone else, unless someone wants to take it over. just means we're back to 2 definatly interested buyers, and 2 maybe's...

apologies once agian.

[SRacin]

Im not quite sure what the story is here, but ive got a fair bit of research to do first before becoming a definite. Plus exchange rate and shipping to NZ is a consideration. Count me as a maybe for now, because doesnt sound like any other rt40 owners are interested so would be a one off...i dunoo..

Cheers
Logan

[brett_celicacoupe]

Typo. I meant 5x114.3.

that could have been a very costly mistake

[RAd28]

acctually guys, i've reviewed my finances, and my desperate need for better brakes, and 5 studs... i'm gonna be in if we can get 6+ people...

[fuzz!]

well we have 2 weeks don't we? let's just see what happens in that time, and try to keep the thread alive.

do you reckon if i got the universal rear kit to match the front, that would count as another order? and what do the rest of you guys intend to do about the rear? is there an easier 5stud/disc conversion? (i mean, you need stopping power at the front, but mayhaps can get away with something a bit whimpier for the rear)

[RAd28]

well i've got the 5 studs covered already... in the form of an RN20 hilux diff... but brakes i'm definatly thinking hoppers.... and i'm not 100% sure if it'll count as another order... perhaps if we trick them, and place that order seperatly hehehehehe... or not

[gianttomato]

....RT40.....

Logan, I presume you know RT81 disc brakes are a bolt up proposition?

[Squid]

I'd be interested if we get a group buy off the ground in march or something?

[RAd28]

sorry squid.. it's gotta happen in feb, else we miss out on the current price

[Squid]

Rad28 - Yeah I know that but there seems to be a lot of 'not nows' so I thought i might see if any of them are interested...

[SRacin]

Logan, I presume you know RT81 disc brakes are a bolt up proposition?

I already have discs, with little twin pot calipers, but i want BIG brakes maybe if i can ket an rt81 stub, a ms65 hub might fit that?
I dunno..

Gotta try it and see.

In the mean time i have a broken axle to fix in my ke25...

Logan

[brett_celicacoupe]

maybe if i can ket an rt81 stub, a ms65 hub might fit that?




Logan

rt81 and ms65 share the same bearings, so hubs are interchangeable. along with a whole other lot of toyotas

[thechuckster]

Wilbo & I have been doing some hub & bearing research over the last few months as part of 5-stud upgrades.

I have 2 possibilities that i'd liek to share share - one as suggested by Blackers, the other uses 1972 Falcon 500 hubs. Neither solves the poor offset problem (and the ford option probably makes it worse) however they're both ways of getting a 5-stud pattern.

MS85/112/123 front hubs
outer bearing:
SKF part 09067/09195/Q
ID 19.05mm (same as MA61, RA28/40 et al)
OD 49.225mm (3.251mm larger diameter than seat in the hub)

inner bearing
SKF part 15123/15243/Q
ID 31.75mm (same as MA61, RA28/40 et al)
OD 61.912mm (1.938mm larger diameter than seat in the hub)

As you can see, both bearing seats in the hub would need machining to enlage the ID of the hub for the bearing shells, but you use the seal as provided with the kit (Blackers said he used the stock seal)

Only issue with this approach is the depth of the bearings is larger than the MA61 item, 2.54mm for the outer and 3.175mm for the inner bearings.

I think this wouldn't be an issue as the depth of the seat in the hubs could accomodate this but am open to suggestions from engineers.


Falcon 500 hubs
older than the MS65 and sold new by a few places (still).

Uses the same bearings as the MA61, RA23/28/40, XT130, RT142, etc etc...

However, the hub is shorter - my measurements suggest that the:
-face for the wheel or disk hat is 12mm closer to the strut
-the overall height of the hub is 7mm shorter than the stock MA61 hub.

Downside to this is that:
-the bolt (with washer) doesn't tighten onto the front bearing (and i think using several washers to space it out would be dodgy?)
-the outer bearing might not be seating in the machined face of the stub
-little adjustment in the bolt to take up wear on the bearings
-offset is probably going to be worse, not better.

Just to show that it's possible, i've put some images online - they're way too big (1600 x 1200) to display here so dailup and 14" screens beware:
top of stub with f500 hub mounted
f500 hub on MA61 strut!
side-on view of f500 hub on MA61 stub

I did find a aus web store (for old ford enthusiasts) that sold new hubs and disks and all manner of stuff for old fords - but i can't find that damn URL at the moment. Suggestions most welcome.

Data Collecting...

For those interested on data collecting for hub comparisons, this PDF might help out - all the data (amd model name) is editable in Acrobat and if you have version 6 reader and above you can save the form and retain any changed values. Hub data collection form.

The holden hub was an idea that got dumped...

One last thought...

Just to add some more fuel to the front-strut debate, a visual comparison of the RT142 and MA61 struts suggests that Corona item would have better negative camber - helpful for those wanting a suspension setup suited to high-speed cornering. It would probably introduce other (e.g. spring seat, strut-top bolt pattern is different, tube length etc) but it might be a starting point for improved camber? Click me.


Anyway, next stop is engineer to get more advice on machining hubs and/or falcon

[SRacin]

Ive just been to the wreckers measuring stuff, and i measured 2 rt81, an rt84, and an rt80 and all of them used the same bearings as the RT40, the small one. Which means that from the parts i measured there is no way of getting the big stub axle. I also measure an RT102 which does have the big bearings, however the stub axle is significantly different, and uses the big ball joints, hence wont bolt to the rt40/80arms. And then the rt40/rt8x arms are siginifcantly different to the rt102 and they wont fit the r40/80 x-member.

Im thinking perhaps aus spec rt8x may have had different stubs with the big wheel bearigs and small ball joints.

Can anybody check this for me?

might need to move this discussion to a new thread.

Cheers
Logan

[wilbo666]

Also, what do people think about trailer hubs?

I don't recall ever seeing a failed trailer hub, but they don't withstand the stress of steering on a trailer...a proper engineer care to help me out here?

Is the verdict that they are too weak/poorly mancufactured?

Tralier hubs with holden bearings and ford stud patter are easy to find

Cheers
Wilbo