Dry-sump construction

[Billzilla]

OMG... thanks billz... i was always wanted to build a dry sump for my 3SG...

i have other things would like to consult u also... i couldnt get the ori fuel pump with no returning fuel line for my 3SGE BEAMS from SXE10... what is the suitable fuel pump to use?! which toy car fuel pump is competible with it?!

thanks...

I run a standard Toyota EFI pump, with a Malpassi fuel pressure regulator running at 62psi. The fuel rail has been modified so that the fuel flows through it like a normal one, not a dead-end one that the Altezza's use.

[Billzilla]

Other stuff that I just remembered -
You want to run no more than about half an atmosphere vacuum in the engine, less in a road-ish engine or the seals will implode.

On the F1 engines, they have each 'V' section seperate from the others, and a scavenge pump for each of those. The reason being that they run a pretty good vacuum in them to reduce the aerodynamic effects on the crank. The volume of the V chamber doesn't change much, as one piston goes up and the other comes down.

[jezza323]

can someone explain (with pic) windage trays and crank scrapers? something ive always heard about but never seen

[kanazai2001]

I run a standard Toyota EFI pump, with a Malpassi fuel pressure regulator running at 62psi. The fuel rail has been modified so that the fuel flows through it like a normal one, not a dead-end one that the Altezza's use.

so meaning that the ori pressure of the fuel delivery line is 62psi?!

thanks for your help... hope can meet u n see u in action at sepang F1 circuit...

[Billzilla]

so meaning that the ori pressure of the fuel delivery line is 62psi?!

thanks for your help... hope can meet u n see u in action at sepang F1 circuit...

That's the factory pressure, yes.

[kanazai2001]

k... thanks...

[brett_celicacoupe]

I can't see why you couldn't run a single scavenge pump with two collectors though.

im guessing, but wouldnt the pump suck the less dense fluid (air).
ie, in the event of no oil at one collector and oil at the other


much like how current takes the path with least resistance?

a couple questions also,

if the main oil tank was to be in the boot, then it would take a long time for the oil to heat up, = bad?? so no good for a semi-street-semi-track car?


what type of oil temperatures do you have with your clubman?



great write up though, very useful!!

[Billzilla]

im guessing, but wouldnt the pump suck the less dense fluid (air).

much like how current takes the path with least resistance?

a couple questions also,

if the main oil tank was to be in the boot, then it would take a long time for the oil to heat up, = bad?? so no good for a semi-street-semi-track car?


what type of oil temperatures do you have with your clubman?



great write up though, very useful!!

I'd have to have a think what would be best -
- A single pipe running along the side of the sump with two suction holes, or two pipes joining just before the pump. I suspect there's more than enough oil so it'd work anyway. But if in doubt, one suction hole is enough for smaller engines.

With the tank in the boot, for sure it'll take a little longer to wake up, but you'd only be adding another litre or two to the system. It'll still warm up just fine.
In the racer, before we start it we pre-warm the oil with a 240v water heater that's intended to be dipped into a pot, to make coffee & so on.
The oil temps in the racer run about 10degC to 20degC warmer than the water, and that's pretty normal. (95C - 110C odd)

[brett_celicacoupe]

I'd have to have a think what would be best -
- A single pipe running along the side of the sump with two suction holes, or two pipes joining just before the pump. I suspect there's more than enough oil so it'd work anyway. But if in doubt, one suction hole is enough for smaller engines.

you could always get some winshield washer hose, and a T piece and try it. suck one hose with your mouth and have one end in a bucket of water and one just hanging in the air.

[Mr Ed]

you could always get some winshield washer hose, and a T piece and try it. suck one hose with your mouth and have one end in a bucket of water and one just hanging in the air.

It might be a different situation when you try sucking the air from a closed container though.

[brett_celicacoupe]

something of interest here. the 79' RA40 RAC TTE rally car. dry sump and surge tank in the boot. doesnt seem to be any swirl arrangement in either tanks. the oil tank is pretty huge and it looks to be breathing into a plastic containter. it also looks like the oil filter is fixed to the bottom of the parcel shelf.

[brett_celicacoupe]

It might be a different situation when you try sucking the air from a closed container though.

i think this is one for mythbusters.

thinking about it more...... i realised that oil, being more dense than air, it will sink to the bottom first.

so depending on where the 2 collectors merge into 1, and how much lateral/longitudinal acceleration there is, it might no be a problem

[Mr Ed]

Im so trying this when I get home. Dont have a camera but I'll post up some results.

[kingmick]

Thats cause its very old technology{the 1979 celica setup, that is}

single Y'ed of two pan outlets would be fine, but there is no point, still going to get the same amount of oil into the pump. We only use 2 with 4 stage pumps!

Bill another good easy to get 240v heater is an airconditioning crankcase{compressor} heater! You can get them from refrigiration wholesalers and come in loads of diffrent sizes! there a steel ring and work a treat and cheaper than Race pad heaters.

[M.J.H]

Great write up Bill.
Was wondering about something though, This might sound like a dum question but if I mounted a power steer pump low enough so thet the line from the sump basically goes straight into the pump then would that be suitable for a scavange pump.

Someone mentioned the use of these in another thread and was just wondering as I might have to do these mods before I fit the motor.

Saves a whole lot of mucking around modifying a wet sump if this is as much work for better results.

Anyway thoughts and opinions needed on the idea please.

Thanks.