1UZ-FE VVTi into IS200

[TheToyman75]

I'm sorry, but how can an ECU magically make air?

Not suggesting for a second that it can make air but the Autronic has awesome idle mapping settings and temperature compensation which is not available on allot of entry level ecu's. Of ocurse having the idle control will be better. No question about that at all.

[JustCallMeOrlando]

Haha, fine fine, that's just not the way it came out. The Adaptronic has a heap of idle and starting settings to play with too, it's just with the ISCV it was taken to another level. Being able to crack the ISCV all the way open when starting is a bonus too!

[The Witzl]

even a megasquirt can do that

[JustCallMeOrlando]

Exactly my point Its one thing that can't be bettered by any level of compensation.

But we've taken Mos' thread far enough away, we just need him to get his FBW throttle working

[JustenGT8]

FBW throttle FTL......they all suck, even the best of the best BMW setup sucks

[Norbie]

I agree, I've driven 4 cars with FBW (Century, Kluger, RAV4 and Astra), all of them suck. The Astra was the worst of the bunch because it's manual, trying to rev-match the gears was nearly impossible with the ECU fudging your throttle inputs all the time. I don't understand what's wrong with a plain old throttle cable, it seemed to work OK for the last 100 years or so?

[The Real Roadrunner]

FBW throttle FTL......they all suck, even the best of the best BMW setup sucks

not if there done correctly.
try driving a VW mk5 golf gti with DSG they work exellent. any of the vw/audi fbw cars ive driven have been great. wouldnt do it on a race car but great for a street car with a shite driver.
cheers
linden

[JustenGT8]

They can maybe be OK if you drive around them but just like an auto it's an interface between you and the engine that will never do exactly what you want all the time.

Maybe i'm just old fashioned but i can see/hear/feel what i want and what the car needs.....the ECU is just trying to give the best approximation of what some engineer thinks you need.

The Golf DSG system is pretty cool though. Is it as good dopwn thru the gears as up? Tghe way it works suggests it wouldn't be?

[MR 1JZ]

*grunts like Tim the Tool Man*

CARBIES YEAH!

*grunts again*


lol

nice ride mos

[Mos]

Finally had some time to write something longer

First and foremost, eternal gratitude to Linden for kicking my ass at 3pm on friday when the 1G going back in (for the second time) was rapidly becoming an option. Linden offered his workshop, offered virtually 2 days of his time over the weekend and organised a tuner for whatever time we finished. Without his help this wouldn't have happened for this weekend, and probably would've been postponed for a few weeks at least.

Thanks also to Yavus from Unigroup Engineering for coming out on saturday evening, making sure the engine started and for opening up his shop on sunday morning to do a quick tune on it.

Once again thanks to Jase for the kick ass headers - I guess they worked

Thanks to everyone who has been involved in the swap

Mainly days of painful refinement to come


Groupie response to a bunch of different posts.

As far as outputs go a healthy pre-'95 1UZ will be around the 150rwkw mark, its the factory ECU that really strangles these engines, although the restrictive exhaust/manifold doesnt help.... once you sort these two areas out you can start getting some nice results!

Having sorted these two areas it looks like it paid off
I'd be really keen to find out what difference the headers make - ie swap them and retune if needed (but not keen enough to actually put the work in).

Hi Mos, have you started the wireing yet, do you plan to use the 1UZ ECU ? i have started to wire my IS up to the 1UZ ECU, but by the looks of it im going to have to use the IS as a piggy back to make it work, as i dont have the cash right now for a NEW!! ECU. let me know how you get on mate or what you will be useing.

So what did you do with the key bizzo Mos?

The original plan was to use the LS400 ECU but that didn't eventuate due to the factory immobiliser - as is well known the key was not provided with the engine "package" making the factory ECU pretty much useless. Given the difficulties, uncertainties and costs involved in unlocking the factory ECU, I opted for an Autronic SM4 - also partly to take full advantage of the engine and headers (see above).

At the moment the engine is set up with the SM4 only, with no factory ECU intervention. I will need to add the IS200 ECU to gain things like water temperature gauge, oil pressure light, oil level light, alternator light, tacho, air con control, ambient temperature sensor (and consequently climate control), factory immobiliser, etc. as these rely on the multiplex system (network) that runs in the IS200.
The LS400 ECU would have, in theory, taken care of all of the network accessed accessories as it also runs the multiplex system in the LS400. So the plan was not to use the IS200 ECU at all - with pre-MPX cars (introduced at the same time as the VVTi engine I believe) obviously you would still need the IS200 ECU for that.

I also intended to run the electronic throttle using the IS200 ECU (more later).

Do you think it would have been simpler to start out with a manual IS200?

Not particularly easier, no. Advantages of manual are:
1) you already have a pedal box and don't have to drill holes in the firewall 2) the clutch line runs to a suitable position - sort of - the factory floor pan mounting tab would need to be removed because it will be in the way of the V8 exhaust, but at least it runs across the engine bay and down the firewall, so suitable for the CRS bellhousing, not so for the NZ bell (clutch slave on the driver's side)
3) no neutral switch jumper required at the chassis loom to engine loom interface
3a) factory neutral switch already fitted to clutch pedal
4) individual connector for the reverse switch - no biggy as the loom has to be nuked anyway
5) Vehicle speed sensor mounted on gearbox - I see this as a disadvantage as the auto takes the speed signal off the ABS computer, so I don't have to worry about *any* speed sensors on the box for the time being

The tunnel is taller in the manual but it looks like it's taller only where the shifter protrudes, so will still need to be modified (upwards) to fit the W58 - no idea on the V160.

Very nice numbers Mos. Bets on how long that W58 will last?

With me driving? forever - With Ed driving, who knows

Ed: V160 conversion kits can be had for well under $4k. It's a no-brainer for you, it plugs straight in!

Does it plug into the engine?

yeah, we'll see. i just want it in and running for starters
204rwkw eh mos? very damn tidy! what have you got the vvti doin at the moment?

Right now the setup is extremely barebones - nothing extra is hooked up, just fueling and timing. The variable length intake runners are set in high rpm mode, and the VVTi is sitting at whatever default/rest state they normally are. I wouldn't expect the engine to make much more top end power than what it has already run, but the midrange should come up nicely.

now imagine another 2000rpm on the redline, and add some 321deg .408" lift cams with 8 trumpets and 11.8:1

This engine gave no indication the power was dropping off at 7krpm, but I'd expect your setup to make at least 260rwkw based on rpm, assuming it can pull the airflow it needs.

Tidy it up?

Yes, there's just the faintest touch of "clutter".

The only person I've seen debur a hole through the firewall after midnight so meticulously it put Jason to sleep.

You shoosh you! I would have never thought I'd be drilling anything in an IS200 - yet here we are...

That is hell impressive!!
SC'd early UZs can struggle to make that rwkw so to do it with a stock n/a and just good exhaust/ECU is a great effort.

You have no idea how idiotic an ear to ear grin looks like after 36 or so hours with no sleep! (following two weeks of almost no sleep)

I wonder how much the VVTi heads/intake i just bought are going to wake up the GT8 ?
and if that's not incentive to pull your finger out Ed??
shakes head, i'll say it again, that is damn impressive

It should make a nice difference - I couldn't believe what I was seeing! If the head flow figures Ed posted up are anything to go by the GT8 should be waking up nicely

Also, fly by wire or modified FBW throttle body with cable FTW?
I'm going to fit an adaptor plate and use an appropiately sized throttle body rather than stuffing around with fly by wire.

As linden said, modified the original accelerator position sensor to actuate the throttle fully. The factory electronic throttle is set up with a failsafe in the event the motor dies - this allows opening of the first 30-40% of the butterfly. This mechanism was modified so it actuates earlier - ie at the begining of movement.

Not an option on 3UZ unfortunately - there's no actual cable/pulley.

No, but there's little reason you couldn't use a 1UZ throttle body on it.

The original plan was to use the IS200 computer to run the electronic throttle body to maintain idle control, cruise control, and to a lesser extent traction control.

where were you a few months ago when I was working out what to do about my FBW issues with my vvti 2j?

Dude, I'm pretty sure this option was discussed in your thread about this!

Mos: What did you do about cold-start and aircon and such, without an ecu to control the FBW throttle to compensate?

Cold start sort of happens. The factory electronic throttle body is slightly open at rest, and I'm guessing gets closed by the electronics if they want to bring the idle down. I can't remember the exact numbers, but when hot it was idling around 1000rpm, and we brought that down to 700-800 by adjusting the stop screws for this rest position.
The side effect is that it doesn't start without throttle input when cold but that could possibly be tuned out - it's only really had about 60 minutes of tuning (rest was setting up and power runs ).
All of this will get addressed at some stage - whether through getting the electronics running the throttle body or extra idle speed control valves - right now it's not so important.

As originally stated the main purpose of the electronic throttle body is to have cruise control and idle control. It's possible that cruise control can work with the current 100% actuation setup, in which case that would be my preferred option over fully electronic control, even though I haven't experienced the issues described by others (is there a delay? yes. is it a problem? no - hydraulic brakes were seen as removing control from the driver some years ago too - go figure...).

Pictures (and more discussion) will come later

Mos.

[Mos]

They can maybe be OK if you drive around them but just like an auto it's an interface between you and the engine that will never do exactly what you want all the time.

Assisted brakes and power steering are also interfaces that affect how the car feels - you're just used to them.
The "delay" on an auto doing what you want it to do and the electronic throttle doing what you want it to do is nothing that can be compared - either that or I haven't driven any fbw cars that make it feel like an auto...
The lag on the throttle is just barely percievable visually on fast transitions, and on slow transition there is no percievable difference. I'd be curious to find out how much intended delay is engineered into it - would your SAE contact have access to any papers on it?

Mos.

[JustCallMeOrlando]

The Golf DSG system is pretty cool though. Is it as good dopwn thru the gears as up? Tghe way it works suggests it wouldn't be?

You'd be surprised, I've taken a Golf GTi for an umm...spirited...Cotter run in the ACT and I came home wanting to have its babies. It's even good around town, blips the throttle on changes to smooth them out, top stuff. A++

[JustenGT8]

better get myself a drive of one then

My SAE contact isn't talking to me Mos....i think he's a sensitive type and any disagreement scars him for a few months Still waiting on UZ weights

[JustCallMeOrlando]

Was funny, on that drive I drove past a car park that looked very familiar. Then I remembered it was from a video Clint had of a certain GT8

[JustenGT8]

Yeah and the slack bastard...your ears burning Clint.....still hasn't burnt me a copy and that was back in the 'lowly' 265rwkw days.

hanging for a n/a scream ride in the Mosmachine....coming down to the CCG dyno day Mos? get some interstate cred