Conversion decision!

[twentyEight]

Ok guys,

So I've been stewing on this for a couple of weeks now, and still cannot make a decision!

I plan to use my RA28 as a daily driver, and I've been thinking that I'm probably better off doing a conversion, being that running an 18R-GU with Solexs is quite un-economical, but I want to get a few opinions!

The other thing that is causing this decision is that I do between 25-40000kms a year, so that many kms on a 18R-GU will make it PITA sourcing parts (eg. timing chain guides) for a re-build (more of a refresh) every couple of years...

Do I:

1. Do the tried & true 1G-GTE conversion?

2. Do a 1JZ-GTE conversion?

3. Just do a decent re-build on my 18R-GU, and pray that I'll be able to find the parts every few years?

I'm already going to put on decent brakes (most likely Corona/Pug/Hilux conversion), and put in some decent suspension, so parts of the conversion process will already be getting done either way...

Thanks in advance for your input!

[RT104GT]

every couple of years...????

What do you intend doing to the car/engine?

I have owned an 18RG engined car since 1976 and have replaced ONE engine and top overhauled the second.

The first engine and gearbox and LS Diff crapped out after 105,000 km in hard outback long distance high speed rallys.

The second engine has been in the car since 1980 along with the replacement gearbox and i just tightened up the timing chain last month and I am about the change the gearbox over as it whines in the countershaft at 239,000 km.

The P51 cost me $140 on Ebay.
Timing chains from $180 to $390 depending on which people you deal with.
You should only need one set in 200,000 km.

You aim at rebuilding every 2 years, what you going to drag it over 1/4 mile every day for two years or run bathurst every week or something?

You under estimate how bullit proof 18RG's are.
They thrive on revs and they dont break easily.

As for running on Solex being uneconomical compared with EFI would not know have run on solex since 1976 30 years and rebuilt them ONCE in 1995 at 200,000 km still get 400-450 km from 60 litre tank, driven hard.

[twentyEight]

I was more thinking every 120,000 to 150,000kms I would replace timing chain, lap the valves and stuff like that... That's why I had "more of a re-fresh" in brakets...

I realise they're bulletproof, but that doesn't make them cheap to run, or make they're parts cheap/easy to find!

[NeoNasty]

V6 commondore engine.

Replacement engine for like $150. Shit, its cheaper to replace then engine than buy a timing chain for the beloved 18RG.

You have to love the 1jz, but I cant say its exactly cheap to run if you put your foot down. Why not one of those 3 liter Hilux engines? If its froma hilux you know it'll last for ever.

[RT104GT]

I was more thinking every 120,000 to 150,000kms I would replace timing chain, lap the valves and stuff like that... That's why I had "more of a re-fresh" in brakets...

I realise they're bulletproof, but that doesn't make them cheap to run, or make they're parts cheap/easy to find!

I understand and you are wise to get a stash of parts in advance, but, BUT I did the same and still have heaps of parts I never used.
Trouble is that was the 80's and now no one has spares and any spares are expensive.

I just went through the motion of buying NOS timing set for $180 only to find that the top gears were the old type. So I sent the set back and now have a request to pay $390 for tthe timing set??? Yes /No? Yes/No? If I do I will have a box of expensive metal, if i dont I will wish I had. Confusing is it not.

18RG engines are getting pretty dated and the good ones with the early heads are rare as. late engines dont go well without lots of work and cams etc etc.

So original or modified?

Everyone is going modified so the original stuff is cheap. I saw some guy selling a TA22 and TWO engines for under $1000.

I got an 18RG free.


Pistons, rings, gaskets all gonna be a problem.

Toyota don't stock, after marketeers are racketeers!!!

called around for hours to find a hand barke cable for an Rt142 used.
$90 posted, rebuilt over $150 for a friggin hand brake cable..

I have three head gaskets left (real shim TRD type) out of 5 I bought in 1979.

I'm doing my gearbox this week so I guess a clutch repair will cost???

Flywheel surface, Clutch plate/pressureplate/thrust bearing/slave cylinder?
Say $350.00
But it will last the life of the vehicle.

And I got a P51 for $140 on Ebay when W50's are bringing up to $500.

So it pays to check the web every day if you are looking for bargains and try to get a good engine to start with.
Good luck.

[twentyEight]

V6 commondore engine.

Shame on you!

[RT104GT]

V6 commondore engine.

Replacement engine for like $150. Shit, its cheaper to replace then engine than buy a timing chain for the beloved 18RG.

You have to love the 1jz, but I cant say its exactly cheap to run if you put your foot down. Why not one of those 3 liter Hilux engines? If its froma hilux you know it'll last for ever.

Yeah or you can do what I did stick the Datsuns and Toyotas in the shed and buy the best kept secret on the road.

1988 AA3S with G13B all alloy twin cam engine 100 kw in 750 kg.

88 Series A Suzuki GTis got three for $3000 (The lot).

They go 0-100 in about 7 seconds, top 200 kph and out of 22 litre tank I get 450 km.

As I said $1000 each parked in the side streets of adelaide and melbourne.

My son and daughter and I all drive one and they go like a riceball on steroids quicker than ANY N/A EFI toyota to 100 kph.



And they tell me (redline GTi) you can turbo these babies to get 100 kw at the front wheels easily or or put the 1600 cc Cultus engine straight in..

[RT104GT]

Shame on you!

My only defense Your Honour is that I want to keep the Toyota for the good years .





The love of my life.

many over the years, under estimated this rice cookie on steroids thats for sure



18RG's RULE OK!? Always have and always will.

So 28 stick an 18RG in it you will never look back.

Bore it out to 3 litres

[Hen]

28, getting back to your original question. If its a daily driver I'd recommend doing the absolute minimum of work on it. Keep it 18RG and if economy bothers you then inject it with an aftermarket ECU. After you've sourced 18R parts once then you'll have a good idea who to speak to next time so it'll be easier.

I feel that an engine conversion will shit you to tears as it always takes longer than you expect then there is the bedding in period where the car will be unreliable for a while. Trying to daily drive a car in this state is a hassle.

Hen

PS, the other option is of course buying a shitbox for a year or two and doing the RA28 seriously. But then I doubt it'll ever become a daily driver again.

[twentyEight]

28, getting back to your original question. If its a daily driver I'd recommend doing the absolute minimum of work on it. Keep it 18RG and if economy bothers you then inject it with an aftermarket ECU. After you've sourced 18R parts once then you'll have a good idea who to speak to next time so it'll be easier.

I feel that an engine conversion will shit you to tears as it always takes longer than you expect then there is the bedding in period where the car will be unreliable for a while. Trying to daily drive a car in this state is a hassle.

Hen

PS, the other option is of course buying a shitbox for a year or two and doing the RA28 seriously. But then I doubt it'll ever become a daily driver again.

Time is no hassle, as I wont be selling my Ute (BA XR6) until the 28's ready and reliable (even if it takes a year or so)...

I was considering do an EFI conversion, but once I do a nice complete re-build (with decent pistons), add EFI, and possibly add an aftermarket ECU, I'm looking upwards of $2500 for for only about 90kW (rear-wheel)... Also, with the EFI, I'd really love Quad throttle bodies, but I'd be looking at about $1500 extra for this!

[tricky]

Bore it out to 3 litres

LOL!! Ya might have a bit of trouble with compression, seeing as the pistons will be running through the coolant galleries!

Dude, if you rebuild the 18RG to improved original spec (9.7 pistons, full balance, late head, early cams, EFI) you'll get 90% of the power you'd get out of a nutso 18RG for $2000 including machining... As opposed to $5000 up for said nutso RG. In the trim mentioned above, it'll run at 7000rpm all day for years if you maintain it properly. Then the valve stem seals will be the first to go, so freshen up the head an it'll run for years again. The question is, for how long will you be happy with 80-90kW at the wheels?

I've been having this debate with myself at the moment. I feel a certain obligation to the old tech, and in most cases, new stuff doesn't quite look right in the engine bay! I sorta want to prove a point and get as much power out of a 2.2L 18RG as I can, but that'll set me back a pretty penny, and it'll probably take a couple of months before I start to regret spending my money on something slow in the grand scheme of things. And timing guides... If we don't find the 18RG eldorado very soon... Things could get expensive or unreliable!

Chew on that for a while longer... Your improved stock 18RG will have better fuel economy than the turboed engines (EFI is a godsend!)... Especially since we all know you won't be able to resist a lean on the accelerator every now and then. But power wise, a turbed RG, stock 1G or stock 1JZ will shit all over a squillion dollar worked NA 18RG any day of the week.

[twentyEight]

I've been having this debate with myself at the moment. I feel a certain obligation to the old tech, and in most cases, new stuff doesn't quite look right in the engine bay! I sorta want to prove a point and get as much power out of a 2.2L 18RG as I can, but that'll set me back a pretty penny, and it'll probably take a couple of months before I start to regret spending my money on something slow in the grand scheme of things. And timing guides... If we don't find the 18RG eldorado very soon... Things could get expensive or unreliable!

This is pretty much where my dilemma lies!

[tricky]

And it's oh so painful! If money was no object, I think I'd buy a TA22 shell, have my way with it doing my dream conversion then restore the RA23 in original racing style with the ultimate RG, but the last thing I need is another car! Then I'd drive it once a month (or it'd be my daily, but a worked NA isn't forgiving on the street), lose interest, try to sell it for a loss, realise I can't part with her anyway, then I'd probably buy myself another celica to prove my allegiance to the celica god... Well maybe it wouldn't be like that, but it's a possibility!

The purist in me says to get a cache of parts to last for a century, then build an improved stock 18RG if it stays as a daily. I can't help but agree with Hen, he who goes nuts on a conversion has qualms about using the baby as a daily!

[tomvale13]

Yeah or you can do what I did stick the Datsuns and Toyotas in the shed and buy the best kept secret on the road.

1988 AA3S with G13B all alloy twin cam engine 100 kw in 750 kg.

88 Series A Suzuki GTis got three for $3000 (The lot).

They go 0-100 in about 7 seconds, top 200 kph and out of 22 litre tank I get 450 km.

As I said $1000 each parked in the side streets of adelaide and melbourne.

My son and daughter and I all drive one and they go like a riceball on steroids quicker than ANY N/A EFI toyota to 100 kph.



And they tell me (redline GTi) you can turbo these babies to get 100 kw at the front wheels easily or or put the 1600 cc Cultus engine straight in..

ep71 starlet turbos are cooler.
drop in either 4efte or 5efte hybrid and wazaam.

[gianttomato]

3vz. 654321