185 3S-GTE engine + ecu questions

[Wildsupra]

i recently bought a 185 gt4 celica and removed the running gear so i can upgrade my 3S conversion in my Aw11.

I have a few questions regarding the 185 version of the 3S. I currently use the 165 version.
By the way its the jap import Air 2 Air cooler 3S.

1. How much boost is safe to run on the stock motor before bits are gunna wanna start letting go? Bare in mind it has custom dump and exhaust and cold air apexi intake system. And how much boost is the standard turbo good for?

2. How much boost can i run before i hit fuel cut on standard ecu?

3. How much power is acheivable with the standard top mount intercooler, before it starts holding me back?

4. What is the weakest link that is going to fail me first?

5. Does any1 have an ecu pinout they could send me or post up for me?

Basically im trying to decide whether to go full after market management straight up, or roll with standard for a while, and also whether to go full custom intercooler setup or just run a custom scoop and fan etc etc.
Also unsure as whether or not to pull the motor down and "build" it now or later, hence the reason i need to know their weakest points.

Cheers in advance.

Matty

[Roundy]

1. Not entirely sure about that, can't recall if the 165 turbo is different some people have run 15psi for ages with no problems, tho a lot of people just stick to ~12psi

2. 12psi is roughly the fuel cut point on the 185 ECU, around this point it seems to open the injectors all the time.

3. 165 top mount or 185? both of them aren't the best bit of gear, a larger h-e on the 165 will help, as for the 185 one...getting airflow too it might be a lil bit difficult, however it isn't a bad unit, just not in the best spot! Possibly the turbo could show it's age re. oil seals and what not.

4. Good question, some people seem to think the head-gaskets are somewhat weak, tho mine is running 130ish awkw with a garret turbo (only 10.5psi boost, but obviously higher cylinder pressures cause of more powah!) and it has held on for 1yr so far and ~30k km.
With the std ecu u are extremely unlikely to melt any pistons cause it runs so rich, i can't see anything failing really

5. not sure, could probably find it in Lance's signature (but u can look through it all )

Cheers
Nathan

[Wildsupra]

Hey man cheers for the info, although i think you may have mis understood, im not using 185 stuff on a 165 motor. i am removing the complete 165 motor and installing a complete 185 motor. so all the info i need is on the standard 185 motor with standard turbo and cooler. Did you mean 15psi on a 165 or 185? My g/f runs 15psi on here carlos sainz 185 daily and is fine, but mine is not a C/S motor.

Keep the info flooding in

Matty

[triptek]

This should help with the ecu pinouts.

I'v been running 17psi on mine for a while now and she's holding up quite nicely. Got a MINES ecu though which is ovafueling somin stupid. Gonna have to go power fc soon.

http://st165turbo4wd.hp.infoseek.co.jp/ecu_pinouts.html

[Andrew162]

stock turbo is a CT26 and boost is usually around 10Psi stock. Even the standard Jap-spec boost figures on the CT20b in an ST205 was 10.75Psi. On my RAV4, because it was 4WD, the weak-point was the clutch because the gearbox was the famous "unbreakable" ST205 box and the drivetrain had been upgraded to suit the GT-Four setup, all driveshafts replaced and diff swapped out. Head gasket can be vulnerable if you insist on over-boosting it, and there's a few variations on which head gasket you should have with different gen's of 3S engines as I found out

Is the engine in need of a rebuild, I guess is the question you have to ask yourself to determine if you wanna keep it stock or strip it and rebuild it with the good shit.

[tooch]

5. Does any1 have an ecu pinout they could send me or post up for me?

Sign up at www.celicatech.com and on the main page, there is a link to 'BGB online', has the entire ST185 (and most other STxxx models too) manual online.

[Wildsupra]

Cheers for all the info guys.

No i do not plan on keeping it stock by any means, however i would kind of like to run it down the strip in stock form, so i can compare it to the stock 165 motor and also further compare it to when i completely build it up. I dont really want to do it in halves, if im gunna rebuild then i will go full management and everything all at once. Including forgies etc etc.
However The motor has done 114k's and doesnt appear to need any work done. It was in perfect running condition before it was removed from the GT4. It currently has custom 3" dump pipe and full apexi air intake, it also has a new brass button 5 puck clutch. I will be mating it to a TRD Mechanical SW20 LSD gearbox.
I think i will install it and see wot i can get out of it before i do the rebuild etc as i will be taking the car off the road for a full respray and interior job later anyway. May aswell build the motor when the car is off the road for a while getting paint and trim done.

Any1 know how much HP i should be able to sqeeze out of it when i push it close to its limits in stock form?

Cheers
Matty

[Andrew162]

well I squeezed out 140awkw at Dyno Day 11, and that was untuned. When it was tuned I guess it would have been closer to 150-155awkw. I'm sure that if you throw all the good shit in there you should be able to crack 160awkw, even with the obligatory 40-45% drivetrain loss experienced in a GT-Four.

edit: sorry, I just the read the part about being "in stock form"... well apparently the standard output on a 185 was about 225hp at the fly, so pushing it's limits you should hit about 135hp at all wheels.

[_ShadowZ]

um matty. you could of pm'd me....LOL
1. 14.7 all day every day. regardless of problems. (i've had most of them)
2. 12psi ish.
3. no air flow as that other fella said. re-mount to side hole. and heat wrap pipes. she'll be right. Or do what tristan with the sw20 MR2 did put cooler in boot and cut big hole in floor and add fans.
4. radiator, get a PWR.

5. Go to this link.
http://ugbox.net/~lance/GT4/Technica...ntrl%20EWD.pdf

[Robert Smithers]

Matty
I run a GT Four st -165 import and I have found this site very informative.
www.gtfours.co.uk/how_to/fcd/fcd.htm

they cover all 165/185 info as they were both imported to UK.

[Wildsupra]

Cheers again guys.

Shadowz/dean, dont worry about air flow mate, i have got that one sorted

Andrew, surely they can make more than 135hp at the wheels, lets not forget im not using it it in a 4wheel drive car, the motor is being put into my AW11 mr2. Drivetrain loss should be very minimal.
Once the motor is built i expect that 400hp will be very reachable.
Tristan is getting 430hp~ with his custom setup in his SW20
In stock form i would have thought 200hp at the wheel would be quite doable???

Cheers
Matty

[Classique71]

15psi , wolf ecu - 170 AWKW for me , though mine was totally rebuilt from scratch with goodness

I Did manage a 120 AWKW on the stock ecu with the rebuilt motor - running 12psi i think

both were done with a stock Ct26 ( aus grp A spec , steel wheel )

[Wildsupra]

15psi , wolf ecu - 170 AWKW for me , though mine was totally rebuilt from scratch with goodness

I Did manage a 120 AWKW on the stock ecu with the rebuilt motor - running 12psi i think

both were done with a stock Ct26 ( aus grp A spec , steel wheel )

I saw your grey GT4 on the weekend mate, very nice indeed.

Question for ya, was the wolf plug and play or did you have to rewire the motor?
And how much did it cost you etc?

Cheers
Matty

[Classique71]

plug and play

just needed the air temp sensor line tapped into off the AFM plug - and a generic one plumbed into the intake piping

that was about it

Stu

[cycleofabuse]

Considering it's a jap spec st185 engine it should have a ceramic turbo which are thought to rip themselves apart after about 15psi. I have the same engine in my car. Fuel cut is 12psi as said already. I run 10psi daily which is a nice kick in the back side, I would run more but it's too close to fuel cut. A FCD would be a cheap upgrade, but I'd only run a few more psi over 12 to be on the safe side.
I think you'll find upgrading the intercooler would be benefitial.
Good luck.