Hydrolic Clutch Adjustment Help - W50

[Screamn_Sleeka]

Hi Guys,
I think i need to adjust my clutch, but if someone could make sure its the clutch and not the shifter/selector of the gearbox that would be great.

I can change gears when the engine is off, although 1st is a little hard. But when the engine is running, and with the clutch pedal completely pressed, i can never get it into 1st, sometimes (and with much force) into 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th are very hard, and reverse is similar to 2nd.

Ive been driving it around the block to move it so people dont think its dumped and steal it, it has plates but no rego. The only way to get it to drive is to put it in 2nd with the engine off, then start the engine with the clutch pedal pressed, then take off from 2nd and jsut use the clutch instead of neutral. But it would be too hard to do that along Anzac prd all the way home.

Also, this problem eventuated over 30mins of driving. By that I mean, I was driving it normally for 30min, during which the shifting got progressively harder, and then finally could not get back into gear at lights, had to turn the engine off, select 2nd and take off. I would think its defiantly the clutch adjustment, but I would have thought that would change over driving time. I assume it happened as the car warmed up, but the next day after letting it sit over night and it had completely cooled down, it is the same, still cant get gears while engine is turning.

I wouldnt post a thread about it, but its parked 10km away from my house so i cant really jack it up and see what is going on.

Any help appreaciated.

[warrior]

the only adjustment you will have is maybe above the pedal that goes to the master cylinder.

I personally dont think it is your clutch and would be leaning more to your gearbox.

have you checked the oil level in the gearbox?

I would start there, sounds like she might be a little dry, even if it does have oil i would drain it and replace it with the correct oil specified for that gearbox.

hope that helps

Karl

[Screamn_Sleeka]

Thanks warrior, but as i said its not in my garage, i cant even get under the car to see the gearbox, or take the drain hole of. The gears seem fine when driving, no major whinning, its only the shifting when enigne is turning, so the problem has to be caused by the input shaft turning.

[Rodger]

Hey Scremn,

Check for hydraulic fluid leaks then correct when you can. Does the pedal get heavier somwhere in its travel to the floor?

Reads like the clutch slave cylinder push rod is not long enough. It can be adjusted longer but need to do it under the car. If it is really adjusted short then the slave piston may have pushed up the bore to a point where it is stuck and cannot return hence in the first 30min. Check by removing the boot.
Once the piston is back in, about half to three quaters down in the slave, check the play in the throw out fork by removing the return spring and rock the throw out fork back and forward and feel for contact with the clutch cover in the bell housing. Not sure of the measurement but if you have no more than 5mm play and at least some then that is a good start.

Now under the dash. Check that the pedal actually gets heavier somwhere in its travel, an indication that it is pushing fluid and pushing the slave piston against the fork. If it does the first time then not again it means the slave piston has taken up the slack to the throw out fork. Adjust the M/C pushrod to make it longer so you can feel the clutch pedal get heavier again in its travel.
Then set the height of the pedal from the floor so you have about 10-15mm play before contact with the M/C piston and it does not bottom out before hitting the floor.

Once you get it going again then adjust the pushrod and pedal so the clutch begins to bite 100-150mm from the floor.

Regards

Rodger

[slide86]

sounds like you have a hydraulic problem. slave cylinder is probably allowing fluid to bypass the seal. try replacing the slave and bleeding the system.

put the car into second and start it, it will bunny hop until you get it giong. then cruise home slowly with hazard lights on. do this later at night so the traffic isnt as bad.
i have done it for customers cars before. (starter motor loves it!)

[YelloRolla]

sounds like you have a hydraulic problem. slave cylinder is probably allowing fluid to bypass the seal. try replacing the slave and bleeding the system.

put the car into second and start it, it will bunny hop until you get it giong. then cruise home slowly with hazard lights on. do this later at night so the traffic isnt as bad.
i have done it for customers cars before. (starter motor loves it!)

once running shifting without the clutch is dead easy, up and down the gears.

like has been said - eliminate hydraulic issues, if any (leaks, stuffed master or slave) and replace fluid. Next for consideration is the pressure plate, it may be fuggered; this would require a new clutch kit.

[Screamn_Sleeka]

Thanks a lot guys!
Rodger, im still digesting what all of that mens, but i think i get it. I think another problem that might back up your idea is that the clutch pedal feels the same all the way down, i thought this might be normal cause im not really used to hydrolic clutches. I will try and do as much of what you have said on the car where it is.

slide86, yea i have been driving it in 2nd as i said in the first post, the 4M doesnt actually mind it, doesnt even hop. And starting it in gear also isnt a problem, with the clutch pedal completely pressed, so the clutch msut be working a bit. Bigger issue is that the car is unregistered, so reving the crap out of it in 2nd all the way home, with a very loud exhaust is going to attrack the wrong attention. It should be ok really late at night, but i dont really have anyway to get to it 2am.

YelloRolla, once the car is moving and the engine is running NO gear can be selected, it can only be in gear if its in gear whne the car is started (with the clutch pedal pressed down).

I havnt even looked at the hydrolic clutch reservoir, but ill print out what you guys have said and take it with me next time i go and try again. its really happened at the worst possible time, im in the middle of uni exams and have the worst exam timetable so i can really spare the time to fix it!

I intend to put a W58 in, as long as there is a bellhousing to suit a 4M, but otherwise, yeah id definatly put a new clutch kit through it now, as im sure ive caused a lot of damage with all this.

ANOTHER QUESTION, i just realised that this scenario doesnt make sense if we are assuming the clutch isnt being disengaged properly.
I can stop the car in gear with the clutch pedal pressed, and sit without having to use the brakes, ie the engine does not turn the wheels.

[YelloRolla]

When driving, pulling into neutral is as easy as backing off the pedal, selecting the next gear is a matter of matching engine revs. This can be done without a clutch at all (I do it frequently).

You will be surprised as to how much punishment they can take without damage (as long as nothing is broken, like selectors).

[Screamn_Sleeka]

When driving, pulling into neutral is as easy as backing off the pedal, selecting the next gear is a matter of matching engine revs. This can be done without a clutch at all (I do it frequently).

Yeah, i understand how to do that, but it isnt at all possible, once the engine is turning the shifter can not select any gear, no matter of rev's and speed. Even without matching the rev's to the speed, it should be able to crunch in, but even this cant happen as it is physiclly impossible to move the shifter into the area to select a gear.

[YelloRolla]

I just realised thatyour problem may be twofold - I suspect that you have broken a selector as a result of having the clutch stuffed/mis adjusted in the first place. This has happened to me on no fewer that 5 occasions, 2 with a W50 and 3 with the W58. I ended up curing the W58 by making a steel selector. (I was able to drive the car home on each occasion - 3 of them from WSID).

[Screamn_Sleeka]

That fits the description better, if it wasnt the two problems then i would be able to still change gears without the clutch as you said before.

So assuming now that my selector is stuffed, jamming it into 2nd and limping it all the way home at 2am is my only option.

Is the selector fixable YelloRolla? i know they are internal, making it a lot more fiddely, if i need to get things machined to fix it i would be better off just getting another W50, or W58.

Any one know if a W58 can be mated to a 4M, and if so what bellohousing and clutch (same as 5,6,7M's?)

[Rodger]

YelloRolla is onto something there. I have not experienced a problem with selector breaking before. Since the car does not stall when stationary and it moves when in a gear the clutch must be taking up and releasing enough.

Regards

Rodger