Cry 02 Cooling System. Your opinions???

[takai]

Yep, it is most certainly the reason why the 1995 TTE Celica was banned from WRC for that year. It didnt compete in 1996 either and then Toyota pulled out of WRC in 1999.

Another couple of famous ones come from Smokey Yunick (sp) in NASCAR. I believe his biggest two were the use of N20 with the cannister being the rollcage (i.e. pressurise the cage with nitrous), and having a completely hidden fuelcell in the car hidden in the chassis rails.

aahhh, ok - thats nothing like what i thought the restrictor would've looked like. I always thought it'd be further up the intake rather than part of the turbo. Heh, i was just googling up the toyota wrc scandal as an example of clever cheating. Soz - off topic.

The restrictor is located very close to the turbo. Infact im pretty sure its required to be a max of 50mm from the impeller blades. That is the CAMS regs anyway.

[oldcorollas]

Smart because as the story goes they thought he was cheating and inspected the intercooler then he produced another oversized intercooler wrap just like the official nissan plasctic in a sealed nissan box which once seen by the scrutineers, kept them happy!
some of the story was in zoom a few years ago others get passed down in the pits and changed like chinese whispers over the years..

thanks for the story.. wasn't so hard to say that first up tho?

so the fault lies with the scrutineers not actually even measuring the thing??? thats just silly

[BigWorm]

For all the younguns or uneducated, thats the TTE variable restrictor. Basically when it was open for inspection it looked exactly like a normal restrictor. But through funky engineering when it was clamped down the middle section extended slightly to allow more airflow around the restrictor, thereby effectively increasing crosssection by about 5mm or so.

Bit hard to see though. Looks like the hand in the pic is pointing at something on the compressor outlet, rather than the the obvious funnel shapped restrictor in on the compressor.

[takai]

Yeah, not sure why he is pointing there. I scanned the pic out of the Rallysport UK mag i picked up whiel i was over there. Seems the pic has made its way around on the net fairly well since then.

[BLK1g-gte]

Hmm I know about that toyota celica cheating and the Nos in the rollcage...anyways back to the topic...what about the benefits of cooling the fuel. Would cooling the fuel at the injector rail draw out some of the temerature down in the compustion chamber? I know in the V8 drag racing some people use a "cool can" which they run the fuel lines trough. So lets say we cool the fuel and the intercooler with Co2 surely this would show some benefits of about 10rwkw + on the dyno. Or would it??

[jonra23]

Cool cans are a hangover from the carby days when vaporising was a problem,
Don't see much sense in cooling fuel when in a very short time you are going to want to vaporize it.

You will definitely get a kw increase on a dyno run or a drag pass by precooling and intercooler and helping it keep cool during the run, don't think cooling the fuel will give you a noticable difference.

regards
jon

[BLK1g-gte]

Thanks for that Jonra.. Yeah i know cool cans are for carb cars....my other car is a carbed chev thats why i thought cooling the fuel would give some benefit...

[kingmick]

Thats smart cheating, changing IC sizes isnt so smart.

bahahaha which one gave it to the opposition and didnt get caught, not real smart when your caught doing it?

[oldcorollas]

http://www.m1gst.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27456&page=2 from here
a vague description of it (which is on a number of pages, but i can't find the cross-section picture which was good)

The cause of complaint was that Toyota had fitted turbo restrictor's which were modified in three ways:

1) The restrictor was not sealed so it was possible to move it without touching the seals.
2) It was possible for air to enter the engine without passing through the restrictor.
3) The position of the restrictor could be moved so it was further away from the turbine than the 50 mm limit permitted.

It was discovered that these irregularities were made possible by a flange which had a special hidden bypass device which was held open against a very strong spring. The hose which connected the restrictor to the turbo had a metal casing inside, and attached to this casing were catches which could secretly force open the by-pass flange to the extent of 5 mm.
Max Mosley explained: "When the system was dismantled, the flange would automatically close itself and remove evidence that extra air could have entered engine. This system not only allowed extra air which did not pass through the restrictor to enter the engine, but also the restrictor itself could illegally be moved further from the turbo.
"The hose was fixed to the restrictor by a jubilee clip. A special tool was then applied to open the device and then the device then gripped in the open position by a second clip. Both of these clips had to be undone for a scrutineer to check the restrictor and in the process of opening those clips the device snapped shut.
"Inside it was beautifully made. The springs inside the hose had been polished and machined so not to impede the air which passed through. To force the springs open without the special tool would require substantial force. It is the most sophisticated and ingenious device either I or the FIA's technical experts have seen for a long-time. It was so well made that there was no gap apparent to suggest there was any means of opening it."
The FIA estimates that 25 per cent more air was allowed into the engine than permitted although admits it's difficult to estimate how much more power that would achieve. An expert put it as high as an extra 50 bhp - a considerable advantage when the cars are supposedly limited to 300 BHP.

and

TTE did not claim the device was legal but was represented by lawyers who entered a plea in mitigation. Mosley went on to say that the points Toyota and their drivers, Juha Kankkunen, Didier Auriol and Armin Schwarz had gained in 1995 would simply be taken away but others would not move up to fill the gaps.

The team would also be banned from contesting the 1995 Network Q RAC Rally and the 1996 World Rally Championship. He also stated that the FIA would not allow the team to get around the restrictions by entering under another guise and went on to say that there was however, nothing to suggest that the drivers were aware of anything going on.

According to Toyota the device had been devised at a "certain level" and the management knew nothing about it. The FIA dismissed this claim, saying that as a team they were responsible for all their actions.

He went on to say that there were indications that this type of thing was not happening with in other teams and praised those who were concerned with discovering the irregularity. TTE has announced that it is planning to appeal against the ban extending through 1996.

[BigWorm]

Wow, I want to know who discovered it then, & how!
Sounds like they put a fair bit of time & effort into it, I wonder how long they got away with it for. Whoever came up with the idea/allowed it to be fitted must still have a sore ass from the reaming they must have recieved!

The Bathrst scrutineering & officials were obviously no where near the levels of the WRC equivelant when it came to "creative engineering", it sounds like showing someone an oversized intercooler wrapped in "official" plastic & in an "official" box in the WRC wouldn't have fooled the marshals let alone the scrutineers!

[AndyTTR]

i thought it was a disgruntled ex-team mechanic that spilled the beans?

Oh, and personally I dont think these CO2 heat exchangers are worth the time and money. As previously stated there doesn't appear to be enough surface or volume for an efficient heat transfer to occur. The other consideration you might want to have is will the gains in power be offset by the extra weight of the system? I'd say they'd be slim to nill.

A smart version of this that i've heard of before was on a turbo LPG car where they flowed the incoming LPG through an intake heat exchanger (like an air-to-LPG intercooler) - apparently the LPG burns more efficiently when its slightly warmer (hence less dense) than the temperature that it is supplied at. This system greatly increased efficiency as it contributed to both better air / fuel mixture and increased combustion efficiency.

[kingmick]

Wow, I want to know who discovered it then, & how!
Sounds like they put a fair bit of time & effort into it, I wonder how long they got away with it for. Whoever came up with the idea/allowed it to be fitted must still have a sore ass from the reaming they must have recieved!

The Bathrst scrutineering & officials were obviously no where near the levels of the WRC equivelant when it came to "creative engineering", it sounds like showing someone an oversized intercooler wrapped in "official" plastic & in an "official" box in the WRC wouldn't have fooled the marshals let alone the scrutineers!

lol your forgetting there is 15 years{15 years is massive gap in racing tech} between them and one is national and the other big dollar international, besides the fact the intercooler was one of a few things.

[river]

Hi,

...... besides the fact the intercooler was one of a few things.

On the same car? What were they? What did they find?

seeyuzz
river

[kingmick]

River they are all back a bit in the thread! overboost switch,co2 on cooler and oversized intercooler.

None were found, they were admited to years later.

[NoRecall]

Kingmick, i dont know if this was previously mentioned but the oversized intercooled was on the GT-R's, the officals did pick up on it so Nissan Simply rang nismo ad said "put it in one of our boxes instead"... Well its no diffrent to HSV/GM with Holden over the years.

With the Z18TE Bluebird .... The rules stated that if you had a turbo car, you could have a fire extinguer in the engine bay..... How ever the rules didnt say you couldnt have it pointed at the intercooler and button opperated. Anyone could have done it so its not cheating.
George Fury was forced to stay out for an extra lap with low fuel when he droped the light cover (aka boost controller cover) in the foot well (woops).... well that is cheating.....