3rzfe/haltech dramas with cas... pic added

[BeRad]

just started to try start the engine, running through all the checks to make sure all the sensors are working, there all functioning right, and all of a sudden the haltech has stoped picking up a trigger from the cas, ive checked the fuses and wiring and all seems ok, it was picking up a rpm was way out but that was because i had the teeth wrong when i put the info into the ecu .

can anyone think of any reason why it would just stop picking up the trigger signal.

the wires running to the cas have the 12v wire etc with power running to it so thats not the problem either
APPRently its magnetic anyway i thought that magnetic didnt need a 12v other than that i dont know why the cas has 3 wires and why it was pickin up a engine speed last time i tried it

just looking at the wiring diagrams the power feed for the sensor runs through a 10 amp fuse which was blown this morning when i was checking everything so im trying to figure out why it blew, and when i replaced it, it still didnt work

its a magnetic sensor (polarity i dont think matters at this time as im just trying to get a engine speed)

thanks

[BeRad]

and is it possible to break the sensor, ive checkd just about everything other than pulling the sensor out to see if theres something wrong with it.


i just dont have enough experience in the electrical side of engines haha

thanks again

[sideshow]

i know alot of toyotas only use 2 wire pickups in the dizzy
so if they have 3 ro 4 sensors there ius a common earth wire then the others are triggers

i would make sure u have the right sensor diagrams because if have wired it up to 12v and it is not suppose to have 12v u might have fukt something

i just checked my 5vz diagrams caus ei cant be fukt goin outside to get my 3rz which might be similar to each other and it runs a mag setup with 2 wires per sensor

so goin by my diagrams u should not have supplied 12vs so i would look at the sensor
and see if its abit melted and then maybe get the haltech checked incase its fukt

[The Witzl]

Sideshow is right....

the sensors in the CAS are VARIABLE RELUCTANCE (VR) sensors - they are magnetic, and most definitely do not have 12V going to them.

I would be pretty sure you have fried the VR sensors, and quite possibly something in your haltech too.... especially considering that the fuse for this 12V feed blew (indicating a short circuit) and now does not work (indicating something is now more fried than a bucket of the colonel's finest).

Get someone to benchtest the CAS and your haltech.


NOTE: when wiring up the CAS, the signal earth for each sensor comes to one common earth wire on the factory toyota plug. Most aftermarket ECUs run a separate earth for each sensor, so make sure you separate the earth wires of each sensor.
The earth wires are white in colour when looking inside the CAS.

[BeRad]

ok thanks for that, does anyone know why it has 3 wires going to the sensor though?. i emailed haltech to query there knowledge they said it may be a motronic sensor with a hall effect generator? make any sense to anyone?

the sensor worked for atleast 20 times displaying a signal though it didnt just work for a few cranks and then stop it worked for a good 10 times checking things over the past 2 weeks,

a broken sensor is the least of my worries, but is it possible the haltech has something fried in there or would have the fuse saved the ecu, all in all i thought thats why there there


the 12v wire that was connected to the sensor doesnt run out of the haltech it runs directly from the relay and fuse block for the haltech , but maybe the power has been transfered through the sensor and into the haltech?

so my real concern is why does this sensor have 3 wires its stumped everyone and thats why i had 12v going to it.

also when i turn the car onto on, the engine speed on the guage page goes to 62rpm then drops to 0 when the engine ISNT cranking. does that make any sense to anyone to show that the ecu is not fuxored haha.


alright so ive struggled my arse off for the past hour getting the alternator off they put that in the best possible spot haha, i can now see the cas and dont i feel like a fuckhead haha, it has 2 wires entering the sensor but on the plug 300mm above it it has a 3 wire plug? /.. maybe the ecu uses that 3rd wire to recognise something else either way the sensor id say is fuckt and i hope the ecu is not


thanks for the help



so at the very least id say im going to need a new cas.


pulled the plastic off it, turns out the 3rd wire that plugs into the plug is the shielding, so ive earthed the shielding , used the trigger as the earth and powered the trigger, any damage you think?


my mate who was half helping wire the car, spoke to the tech gurus on the ms site because thats what ecu he runs warren from there seems to think that magnetic sensors are indestructable,

also if the haltech can run hall effect also which it does, that uses a 12v wire woudlnt the haltech be able to handle the 12v comin in (seen as i fucked the wiring)then or does it switch over to a different set of resistors or whatever it uses to translate the signals?
so i guess my point is it being able to handle the 12v power when its set to halleffect why wouldnt it be able to take the 12v when i had it set to motronic?

[thechuckster]

if you ran 12V to the sheild then the shield should have earthed the 12V and hence blown the fuse.

When you say 'earthed the shielding' - you should be doing this at one end of the cable only.

The breif 62rpm you get at power-up is the ECU trying to make sense of the noise coming from the dizzi pickup. My MS-EFI ECU did this until i had the shielding and polarity right.

Just measure resistance across the VR sensor wires (unplugged from the ECU please!) if it's Open Circuit, then you've toasted it, otherwise it'll keep working.

If you had the ECU in hall-effect mode (motronic mode) then yes, the input should have been able to cope with raw 12V.

VR inputs are polarised - you may have to swap the two leads around to get the right signal. Once you work out which is the sensor input and the earth (for the sensor, not the car) you should join the sensor earth input to the sheild at the ECU - and nowhere else.

hope this helps, cheers,
Charles.

[BeRad]

ok thanks i have 2.08 resistance across the sensor? this would indicate the sensor is fine and the problem lies somewhere else?

i didnt run power to the shield, what i dont get is the ecu was pickin up a signal for 10 or 20 cranks each crankin for a good 2 - 3 seconds why did it do that and then blow?
after replacing the fuse i still have nothing

id say that the haltechs shield for the cas would run into the ecu and then out into one of its earths correct?... i earthed the shield as well near the sensor would this mess with shit?

also with the ecu showing 62rpm wen i turn the key would this indicate that the ecu doesnt have a problem, but i dont know what else it could be unless it burnt a wire out somewhere.

[thechuckster]

resistance sound healthy - sensor probably fine

does the Haltech show any signs of life (e.g.air or coolant temps change when you unplug a sensor? Or is it just not reading any CAS signal?

yes - i think the haltech-supplied loom earths the shield back at the ECU. Just to re-iterate what Witzel said - ground the shield at one end only. If you've grounded the other end - undo that!

re-reading this, you ECU must be working if it's telling your RPM -

my suggestion? undo what you've got for rpm/triggering, then carefully run out (right from the ECU) just the traces (the wires) you need to connect to a VR sensor. If you bought the car wired up but not running, i'd mistrust the wiring.

Wiring diagrams from haltech's do make sense (after a few reads), if you have one, go and study it now, if you don't - download one.

99% of wiring issues are mechanical not electrical (e.g. dodgy earth, broken pins, connectors not connected etc.

[BeRad]

been doing mre research on the haltech forums

it says something about having a different chip for different cas's everything else is the same but not for the cas, my ecu was built to un a comodore and they run hall effect, could i have burnt the cas chip out becuase my sensor is not a hall effect, but it still doesnt add up how it worked before and now it doesnt and it didnt just work for 1 go it works for 10 or more

yer the haltech ahs power , fuel pumps powering up , air temp and coolant temps are going up and down with outside temps and going to -40 wen disconnectd so it has life.

can only put it down to a wire being burnt out or the ecu having something fried in it either due to my wiring or due to having a wrong cas chip?????

[thechuckster]

what model haltech? Norbie's could change from Hall effect to VR input via a menu selection - was easy as

edit: you probably had enough signal difference to just trigger the Hall effect input - they're a sqare wave input (going from 0V tpX volts when the sensor is triggered), whereas the VR is a wave that usually goes below 0V (e.g. -1V) before swinging up to above 0V (e.g. +1V) as the tooth passes thru the magnetic field of the sensor.

The hall effect sensor in my dizzi was able to trigger Norbie's ECU in VR mode briefly.

[BeRad]

its a brand new e6x, yes mine has the option to change also in the software , it was just a suggestion. just trying to get to the bottom of it reading trhrough all his 7 pages of haltech thread hhaa no help there. starting to shit me i think the witzl etc may be correct in saying ive burnt something out in the ecu even though i dont see why it should

[thechuckster]

Did you know that you can also change the sensitivity of the VR input via the software?

i'd suggest:
remove dizzi (marking where it was before removal)
cut off small section of hose that fits over a drill bit
put that drill in your electric drill
hookup VR sensor as per haltech and setup software to read it as a VR sensor (make sure you do a complete power-off reset of the ECU - no power at all in car and serial port disconnected)
person 1 holds dizzi, person 2 holds rubber-hose-on-drill against shaft of dizzi and runs drill
person 3 (you) tries different VR sensitivity settings til you get a reading
person 3 then tries changing polarity of VR connection to check is good
person 3 makes reu reading is stable
re-assemble everything and congratulate yourself for novel use of an electric drill
person 1 & 3 make fun of person 2 for sitting on a still-warm soldering iron.

[BeRad]

the 3rz has a crank angle sensor no dizzy twin coil packs with internal ignitors a crank angle sensor and a cam sensor

haha yer ive tried various signals from 0 - 2 correct?.

when i had it working it was firing the injectors good and then it just all stoped working so i had it working and now something has shit its self. i definatly shouldnt have had 12v power running throguh it though come to think of it i dont even know how it was gettin a signal from a 12v and a trigger doesnt it need an earth? ahha fuck knows


i tried using a gemini dizzy that uses vr signals but we were only spinnin it by hand i had my doubts weather that would even register so ill try the drill tomorow on that but i wont get my hopes up

[thechuckster]

i only saw the sensitivity interfce of the haltech software once - memory not good at my age....

someone might have a screenshot - and am reasonable sure the manual will go into it in some detail.

i thought it was a sensitivity setting that ranges quite high.

Defiantely test it with a VR dizzi - but you'd need to be using your sensor to set the sentiviity correctly - maybe rmove the spark plugs and fuel-pump fuse and test on the engine.

[BeRad]

yer ill try it more over the weekend but yer its just a big problem to me that it was working and now its not and ive tried several wire configurations even though the diagram should be right, so yer i dont know haha thanks for the info guys if anything else springs to mind just add it in here every idea may be it and will save me some time