Ta22 4AGE blow-by

[OXR]

Hi Guys long time lurker first time poster.

Picked up PULSE's old car a week ago.
Failed to check for blow-by /blowback (whatever term you like)
Yes very dumb of me as I have come across same issue with 3tgteu's.

Anyway as i'm not familiar with the 4AGE.
How much is too much, cause I suspect its got issues..
Here is a short video where i'm trying to show velocity and volume.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKBqN74wFng

It's also surging/choking a bit then gets over the "hump" and gets on with it, where it then chokes up at 6200.
Very unhappy about it dropping oil on my new garage floor

Once I finish fixing up the loom, i'm off to mechanic to get compression test.

Any opinion on what you can see on the video?

cheers.

[privatealpha]

Seems fine.
Doesnt appear to be any smoke.
Even if it does smoke, its expected, 20 year old motor and all.
There will be clearences everywhere.

Edit:
By smoke, i mean cant see during the day, but at night with a light shining through.

[Grega]

something to bear in mind ; i rebuilt this motor ; not sure how many kays would be on it by now ; but i'd have done 20,000km on it when it was in my ae92.

by rebuild ; existing pistons were used ; new rings, bearings and seals all throughout. the existing oil pump was retained. as were the crank and rods. the head was reconditioned completely and new valve stem seals installed. the bores were honed as they were clean with no scoring ; ring gap clearance was fine when rings were put in ; i made sure that the rings were aligned to the correct locations on the pistons as per recommendations.

the engine wouldn't be 50,000km old - so its not old by any terms. while its a 20yr old motor, its not 20yrs old in wear (per se).

yet blow by (and filling the catch can) is normally caused by rings?

[toyoda]

OXR,

The video clip seems pretty normal for a 4AGE to me.

Toyoda

[OXR]

Ok thanks,

Have Re-terminated the loom to remove voltage drop from injectors, coil and fuel pump.
Starts a lot easier and now revs out past 6200..
Will see what a comp test shows next week.

Cheers

[Grega]

....voltage drop from injectors - can't be good. nor coil or fuel pump......sounds like re-doing the wiring might fix one problem but who knows what the existing wiring has screwed up?

[OXR]

Yeap that's what i'm thinking.
Most obvious is the motor leaning out.
If I had to guess I'd suspect the injectors just did don't have enough voltage to open at 6200.

Although the fuel pump was playing a nice tune in time with the indicators at idle who knows if pressure dropped(or by how much) in the rail at high RPM. VL pump has a fair bit of headroom for a 100Kw motor, even if it was running at 9V.
This is why I was asking about blow-by, as I was thinking detonation due to lean out, Possibly ring damage, or piston ring lands.

Was not picking on your motor building skills.

[Grega]

hey oxr.......i hear you mate.
the vl pump even NA will be able to supply enough - even if its a stocker it was good for 114kw in the VLs of the day....100kw (this is based on power though - not sure what pressure needs to be at the rail in the 4age)

thats cool - as suggested initially the motor ran awesome in my ae92 at the time prior to matt putting it into his ta22 so, i'm somewhat mystified as to whats happened here.

let me know how you go with the mechanic and comp test. if you were not far away i'd lend you mine and you could DIY

[oldcorollas]

Yeap that's what i'm thinking.
Most obvious is the motor leaning out.
If I had to guess I'd suspect the injectors just did don't have enough voltage to open at 6200.

Although the fuel pump was playing a nice tune in time with the indicators at idle who knows if pressure dropped(or by how much) in the rail at high RPM. VL pump has a fair bit of headroom for a 100Kw motor, even if it was running at 9V..

i'd be doing a cool1 and checking your earths

particularly from battery to chassis and also the connection from block to chassis/battery.

if indicators are affecting fuel pump, then it is more likely to be the return -ve side, than the +ve side?

anyway, check your big cables.. migth solve some things... also check the alternator is on tight (bracket too)

[OXR]

Yes your right, earths are the first thing to check.
+ve side having issues is not the norm.
Reterminating the + side though has solved some issues, earths were decent.
To save me explaining to the guys at work, a picture is lots easier so here it is.

I still have to sort out the final termination of high pressure pump and relocation to the back of the car.
The lift pump at the back of car is running correctly i.e. only runs at start and then continues to run, however it is not connected to the circuit opening relay(marked by the X in the photo). The circuit opening relay, currently has nothing connected to its output (as I found it). It is on with ignition, so not correctly wired and I have yet to investigate.

Before anyone wishes to comment on the mess of wires.
New coil is under the mess top right hand corner, the mess is all the excess wire from the Check connector. I’m still thinking about a elegant solution to this, currently its just spiral wraped and coiled up.
Old coil have yet to remove, in addition there is mess around the relays that I have not delved into yet.

[Grega]

what has been seen cannot be unseen.

[OXR]

what has been seen cannot be unseen.

Yes thanks for that
Happy to post up a mess for peoples enjoyment, hope I have not scared you to deeply

Took it to a mates brother today who has been at it a long long time.
The mechanic was trying to be polite.

Compression test showed.
Cyl one at 195psi (black plug)
Cyl two and three 200psi.(not so black, decent tips)
Cyl three 190 psi.(not as black as one but not as good as 2 and 3).
Wow that's some high figures.
Believes there is a fair bit of blow-by. He did not have a leakdown tester but verdict is rings are worn, regardless of high compression.

Put the car on the hoist, HMMM the RWC is even more bogey than first thought.
Exhaust has pin holes in the welds, as well as muffler.
Upper control arms both side,s rubber is just floating in the breeze.
Oil leak mentioned earlier is the gear box, not much oil left in it.

It goes on, I won't bore you all with the details.
Will be taking it to a licenced tester later this week to get a full list of defects. Some of it is just plain unsafe, basic stuff.
Looks like one more RWC tester will shortly become un-licenced.
Shi! happens I guess.

[Grega]

yeah i'm scarred alright.
did you read matts thread from when he did the conversion? its here : http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=23761

your oil leak will be coming from the front of your gearbox - matt used the original 2T gearbox by the look of it but put the A series bellhousing on there....there is a problem with a seal or something at the front if memory serves and i suspect this could be the issue there OXR.

sounds like an engineer also needs to be spoken to.....
the overly high comp results sounds like the rings are worn ; oil pushing past the rings may cause these overly high comp test numbers.

[OXR]

Ah thanks for that, yes I had read the thread but have no memory of reading about gearbox issues, I did skip a few pages, i'll have to reread the 33 pages.
However, the car came with a few spares, a broken T50 Box and separate bell houseing that had an impressive amount of oil sludge in it. I was wondering how that oil got there. It took a full can of degreaser.
The oil thats dropping is definitely gearbox oil. The gearbox was pretty much empty.
Have filled it up, should create a nice mess over the next few weeks.
It looks like the main seal is weeping.

Looks like the process to deal with bad RWC is to get a second opinion, then take that to original guy to have issues fixed at his expence (4.5 hours away), or onto the RTA who will then inspect it. Once inspected will be canary'ed and it will be up to me to fix, oh and guy loses his licence.
Lots of angst ahead.

[OXR]

As I have a case of the CBF at the moment figured I add some progress here instead of where it counts.
Got the car back from guys that did the RWC, first week in jan.
They fixed up some of the issues.
Most notabley
Removed gearbox and resealed it, using blue silcon.
They have managed to create a water leak at the back of the motor in the process which I have yet to find. Only leaks when pressure builds when hot motor is shut down.
Replaced upper and lower control arm bushes with nothalane. So now I have a spare set from my old car to sell at some point.
Fixed some of the exhaust, did not replace blown exhaust gasket.
The guys at coxens holden should stick to selling chainsaws.

Since then swaped out noisy diff only to find tailshaft flange has a rectanglar bolt patten Did not think to check as have done diff centers a number of times now and a bit blazay.
That will teach me.

Swaped out rear springs and shocks, this really firmed up the rear.
Take a look at picture of rubber for spring mounts, I put them back in but I don't think they should be there?? not in my other ta22??

Relocated fuel pump to the boot and now on the correct circuit.
While doing pump, got a bit distracted with a rust issue that I noted here

Whats next.
Valve stem seals I get some good puffs of smoke on take off.
Will have exhaust gasket done at same time and replace missing stud.

Front struts from my other car and ball joint drivers side.
Seats hmm have not decided exactly what.
Raditor water bottle.
Probably a number of days in my quest to have wireing upto how I expect it should be.
Remove wood screws from bonet hinge.
Move return line on catchcan to plentum.
add charcol canister

I guess I should rename thread to my todo list.

add oil cooler from other 22.
install 3core civic alloy Raditor maybe.
Cat converter and exhaust.
Swap in hellar inserts and elimanate the separate parkers.