3SGE BEAMS running lean

[DURO]

I have a 3SGE BEAMS from an Altezza fitted to a RA65 Celica
The engine came from a front cut and has a Greddy AFM and POD fitted to it
When run on the dyno, the engine is running very lean and not making near the power it should
This has been proven by partly covering the air intake which alone caused an increase of 30 HP at the wheels
The assumption is that the Greddy AFM and pod flow better than the factory set up which theoretically should improve power providing the fuel can be matched
Does anyone have any suggestions how this problem can be solved easily other than reverting to the factory set up which I don’t have?

It is using the factory ECU

[lexsmaz]

Whats your fuel pressure like & is it lean all the way or just up top ..

[assassin10000]

As just said, the fuel pressure may be off (should be 60-62psi), or you may have the wrong MAF/wrong size housing.

Andrew

[DURO]

fuel pressure is good. have tried with RA65 in tank pump and currently have surge tank and Bosch 044 in line pump with FPR on return line. have varied fuel pressure from 60 to 80 psi with little or no effect
i think the injectors are at max flow therefore no change with higher FP. engine is lean right thru the rev range.
was thinking bigger injectors or maybe an ECU "FLASH"
has anyone had experience in this area

[DURO]

does anyone have any idea how much bigger than standard injectors i would need to go from .99 lamda to .88. thats if i decide to take a punt on that fixing the problem

[thechuckster]

does this motor run the fail pressure at a fixed pressure (returnless setup) or does it have a FPR and return line on the fuel rail? I've only seen one or two up close and they were returnless (so regardless of of rpm/load you get fixed pressure).


rereads this quote and theorises...

... This has been proven by partly covering the air intake which alone caused an increase of 30 HP at the wheels

At a guess, the thing has enough fuel but way too much air. Find a factory MAF or correct sized replacement (apparently 1UZ MAF will work). At the moment, for a given load (and thus air entering intake manifold) the Greddy MAF is returning a signal that the ECU thinks is a lower load.

Simply bolting on a larger MAF will not get you any more power

["Z" UTE]

I am with Chuckster on this one. From my research into BEAMS ECU's, they are not a learning ECU, and will always trey to re establish basic factory settings. Guys who have used interceptors, have found that, even the modified signals from the inteceptors will be interpreted by the ECU and are deemed to be false inputs, the ecu then applies its own algorithm to those signals and comes up with a factory value. With an initial dyno run after fitting an interceptor, the power is there, then next run you are back to std power output. If you want more power from a BEAMS, you have to ditch the factory management and go aftermarket.

cheers Chuck.

[DURO]

thanks for the feedback guys
have tried returnless and return with fpr setup
guess i'll keep looking for a factory afm and airbox
cheers
Bruce

[jonathan yee]

i've read that the beams MAF's are quite sensitive to turbulence etc, people have run pods directly before the MAF and this has upset the air flow to a point of causing bad running conditions. you need air to flow nice and staright thru the MAF.

think one guy used straws or the like to remove turbulence, i think the MAF isn't reading the correct amount of air flow due to turbulence which was reduced when you covered part of the intake.

[thechuckster]

think one guy used straws or the like to remove turbulence.

that would be Bill Sherwood's Sprinter (BEAMS +factory ECU)

[terryo]

i have recently had exactly the same problem and fixed it by returning to the factory filter box. bingo, no more rich/lean spots.
if you look inside some of the air boxes, you will see straightening vanes to help smooth the air flow around the MAF
the 2ZZ celica engine is notious for this problem with cold air intake systems fitted

[DURO]

Terro i solved the problem would you believe by making a spacer that fitted in the afm housing and had a hole around 50mm in it. of course it was way too rich so kept enlarging hole till it was just a bit too rich then drilled a series of 3/16th dia holes till it was right then sikaflexed it. left it running slightly rich. ended up with 150rwhp

[terryo]

i hope you are right. have you checked the mixture at various load/rev points???. when we stick them on the dyno with a proper Lambda analyser, the results are all over the place. just cause you fixed it in 1 place, does not mean its fixed everywhere.
FYI, there was a similar article in latest Holden trade news, about non-genuine air filters seriously upsetting the AFM and warning of the consequences of not using the factory filter. The oil from pod or replacement filters was particularly mentioned as a problem in contaminating the sensors on the MAF.
A mate came in to my work yesterday talking about getting mixture right with Altessa engine he had just converted.
I've seen this problem lots of times now

[dumbass]

1uzs have very similar issues when people fit later model hilux air boxes
the air flow stream into the maf is not open undistured and sometimes
the airflow is fatser or slwoer than the motor is actually needed and it idles and takes of like shit

the engine vacuum creates the correct air speed thru the air flow meter
if u add or remove something u might create a venturi effect and air speed changes to what is
really needed

anyway this is common on 2jvvti where people use wrong air meter and fit ti to a non factory pipe
this can cause issues and u never think back at the intake
toyota spent years perfecting it and we spend 5 minutes fking it up heheheeh