R154 gearbox rebuild gone wrong

[Esselte]

Hi,
I've got a question for anyone with experience rebuliding gearboxes. Is it difficult to tell whether a bearing or a syncro is stuffed?
I just recently got my R154 rebuilt, it had bearing noise, mainly noticeable in neutral, but otherwise functioning fine. Wanted to get it rebuilt coz i was planning on having 270rwkw running through it (currently had 200 rwkw for a year, and the box ran exactly the same the whole time, no problems at all aside from that bearing noise). Anyway put it in, it only needed a couple of bearings so i spent 700 bucks on a rebuild, got it back in the car, along with a new high clamping pressure clutch, and it was still slightly noisy in neutral, and now about 1 week after it's shit itself. It's extremely noisy in neutral, sounds like gears hitting against each other (clutch selector assembly maybe?), can't get it into second at all, first is very hard, and also if you're driving in first or third and stop accelerating and slow down, the grinding noise starts but a little louder coz you're actually in gear. I was told by the builder that it's hard to tell if bearings are stuffed and same with syncros, is this true?

Thanks for any opinions/advice, Dan.

[allencr]

was told by the builder that it's hard to tell if bearings are stuffed and same with syncros, is this true?

NO, that's complete BS!!!
Is there any change in sound at all when lightly pushing on the pedal in netural?
If not, then I'm 100% sure that there is no release/throwout bearing noise that might add to the confusion, and it is only the box.
Sorry.

[mullett]

TAKE IT BACK

They can pay for the removal and refit, and all the parts and labour to do it again.

RM.

[richov8]

Dont you hate that?
It is people like that who give us mechanics a very bad reputation.
I manage a reputable auto workshop in hobart and if the rebuilder
is not a member of a accredited body ie.VACC then you are up
s**t creek with out a paddle.
Anyways toyota gearboxes are very easy to rebuild, go back to them
and demand it be fixed if not give him a smack in the head, better yet
give him two one for you and one for being a dumb s**t.

[Cressida91GLX]

Yeah and if they don't build you box, than please PM me there address. As I don't want to go to that person. Sorry to hear, but they should rebuild it for free.

[Dale]

Thrust bearing, or more likely clutch? No spigot bearing? (I saw that one recently, and boy did it make a mess, the sad thing was it was a mechanic that put the box in!!)

It's unlikely the gearbox would be _worse_ off than before, considering it was actually okay before the rebuild. If the shop fitted the box and new clutch, definitely take it back to them!

[Esselte]

Ok it's good to have clarification as to whether you can tell conclusively and easily if a bearing or syncro is stuffed.

Also, it was the mechanic who fitted the clutch and box. He knows what he's doing though.

I think this dude should pay for the fitting and everything, and the box is WAY worse than before, can't even get it into second gear at all. It's WAY noiser in neutral, more than twice as loud. I don't think there is any thruster bearing problem. It's completely quiet with clutch down, lift the clutch up and it's really noisy.

Thanks for the opinions guys, i'll let you know how it goes and who to avoid if it's not fixed.

Cheers, Dan.

[fezi]

I don't think there is any thruster bearing problem. It's completely quiet with clutch down, lift the clutch up and it's really noisy.

Thanks for the opinions guys, i'll let you know how it goes and who to avoid if it's not fixed.

Cheers, Dan.

Its always hard to diagnose problems over the internet but I'm guessing its the thrust bearing after reading its not noisy with the clutch down. The thrust bearing only rotates with the clutch released and hence only noisy then. Possible input shaft bearing but more than likely thrust... easy fix but still the box needs to be removed

[nihilism]

Its always hard to diagnose problems over the internet but I'm guessing its the thrust bearing after reading its not noisy with the clutch down. The thrust bearing only rotates with the clutch released and hence only noisy then. Possible input shaft bearing but more than likely thrust... easy fix but still the box needs to be removed

Other way round. Sounds like the box to me, anyone else agree?

[Esselte]

It's not thrust bearing. The thruster bearing is only active when the clutch is being depressed and vice-versa... and when you stop accelerating when in gear for a bit then start again.
It's noisy when the clutch is fully up, continually noisy, plus i can't get it into second gear at all.
Just to confirm once again, anybody who's actually built or rebuilt gearboxes, is it difficult to tell is a bearing or syncro is stuffed? This will help me alot in determining whether something has just gone wrong after the rebuild (i.e. something failed in the box of it's own accord), or whether the rebuild wasn't done properly.
I'm guessing the latter, as R154's have a sterling reputation for reliability, and a freshly rebuilt box shouldn't be
1. WAY worse than it was preivously
2. so weak as to not be able to handle a performance clutch for a week, when only running on 200rwkw as it has been for the past year.

[bk_]

OK... couple of questions:
1) how many km have you driven it for?
2) what average rpm did you drive it?

I am unsure if my questions are relevent... but let me tell you, I have experienced the problem you described above... And it wasn't fun in the end (stupid stubborn me).

Ended up being no oil in the gearbox.

-BK.

[EldarO]

It's not thrust bearing. The thruster bearing is only active when the clutch is being depressed and vice-versa... and when you stop accelerating when in gear for a bit then start again.
It's noisy when the clutch is fully up, continually noisy, plus i can't get it into second gear at all.
Just to confirm once again, anybody who's actually built or rebuilt gearboxes, is it difficult to tell is a bearing or syncro is stuffed? This will help me alot in determining whether something has just gone wrong after the rebuild (i.e. something failed in the box of it's own accord), or whether the rebuild wasn't done properly.
I'm guessing the latter, as R154's have a sterling reputation for reliability, and a freshly rebuilt box shouldn't be
1. WAY worse than it was preivously
2. so weak as to not be able to handle a performance clutch for a week, when only running on 200rwkw as it has been for the past year.

if a synchro is fubar'd, itll be hard to get it into gear, and the only way you can ge tit into gear is either double clutching it, or pushing yur clutch in, pushing hard up against the gear, and revving it up and down to tr and match the revs enough so that it'll slip in.

if you cant get it into second, even when the car is off, its not the synchros.

try this, start the car, clutch in, put yuor shifter against the second gear position, and put some force on it, trying to push it in, if the synchro is fubar'd, it should still eventually slip in, if it dont go in at all, might be a selector problem of something..

my experience is from driving car with fubar'd synchros, however none of them have been R154, so i might be full of shit (most likely)

best check your oil, take the shifter out and have a look

Eldar.O.

[bk_]

Let me add some more info from my experience. Effectively the same sized gearbox (rb25det 5-speed)

Basically I couldn't put it into 1st (and barely 2nd) any more after ~1200 km. (funny that I couldn't put it into gear _just as I rocked up to my driveway from 30km roundtrip). This was in winter with trips of ~10-15km. I probably never revved it in 1st/2nd past 2000/2500. and rarely at all past 3500rpm (yes, grandpa me) but in 3rd/4th. 5th gear was the quietest of them all.

The more hammering, the more likely it would have died "earlier" which appears to be the case in your situation.

Gearbox should be quiet as a mouse if all the bearings were replaced and oil in the box.

Your symptoms pretty much match what happened to me. Best thing to do is to drain the oil from the gearbox - it might be 1L, or even a few drops.

Hope it helps.

-BK.

[joecoolmk2]

it sorta sounds like the clutch thrust bearing as well as a box problem. it sounds like the clutch hydraulics aren't working properly, they're hydraulic aren't they?

if you aren't getting the travel in the slave cylinder, which maybe because of the different clutch that's fitted, then it would make it difficult to change gears.

have you checked your clutch reversoir, if that's got enough fluid, then it might have air in the lines.

[StuC]

can you get 3rd,4th or 5th gear? Sounds like a selector problem to me. Synchros even when stuffed will still go in eventually. And if the bearings were replaced it shouldnt make noise. And if he put the box and new clutch back in without a new throwout bearing he is a dumb shi*t. Methinks he has stuffed up on the rebuild