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Thread: Motor blown on dyno tune...??

  1. #1
    Junior Member Grease Monkey The GW's Avatar
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    Default Motor blown on dyno tune...??

    As some of you may have read in my members ride thread my engine blew up on the dyno...and it was a professionally built 3tgte with forgies, fully reco'd, EVERYTHING replaced etc around 6000 k's ago.

    Took it to a tuner in ballarat, it had a different ecu and we had put the standard throttle body back on as the bigger one couldnt be used with my haltec, so it needed a new tune. Anyway, it had barely been boosted, pretty much NO top end, i babied it round until the dyno infact i barely drove it. Idling lovely, not using water, no uncertaintys. Asked for a safe tune, not a HP hero.

    Recieved a call asking if my car used water before, it was now blowing water out radiator cap, spraying it out exhaust, idling like garbage and so forth. Water in the oil, water on cyl 3 spark plugs. Beautiful. I understand these things happen to motors, and although i have got the sour tits on, i just want to work out what has happened.

    Below shows some of the power runs, from what he told me he did 6 or 7, this is every second one. Very sorry for photo i hope you can work with it didnt have scanner.
    Red line: First run he pulled out of...too much advance apparently running 30 in top end
    One run in between not shown then have green line: made 160rwkw and line is smooth and consistent
    Pink line: A little higher early on but gets a little inconsistent
    One run not shown then Black line: Absolutely erratic and all over the place...any opinions on this? What is synonmous with this sort of thing? My injectors have been cleaned and flow tested, new fuel pumps etc and fuel tank of petrol.
    Is it odd that he has kept the power down even though it is jumping all over the place? Please give me opinions im not that knowledgable on dynos.

    I have copies of air fuel ratios for the first few runs including the pink line, however i didnt get them for the one before and the black line when it went crazy, ill get them tomorrow.
    Air fuel ratio is fine for all runs that i have been provided.



    Ok so pulled head off tonight with rod, and discovered detonation on the head gasket, and holes on cylinder 3 and 4. It cant have been occuring too long because burn marks on head and block arent bad at all. But am i right in thinking, even if it had detonated a little before the dyno, it shouldnt have blown on a dyno because it shouldnt have been detonating on there, since that is what a dyno is designed to PREVENT?



    Getting head fully tested tomorrow. Please give me as much direction/advice/questions you would be asking the tuner etc as possible as soon as possible. I dont expect anything to come out of it, but id atleast like to work out what is to blame for the motor blowing. Oh yeah, he charged me $330 for the wonderful tune
    1984 SA63 Celica - RIP , 1979 Ford XD - The Lunar Lander
    1972 TA22 Celica - Project Car ,1986 ST162 Celica SX - Gone
    1985 RA65 Celica - Me & ryleys rally car
    1974 TA22 Celica - Current project, 1972 TA22 - Wetish

  2. #2
    Junior Member Grease Monkey The GW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Motor blown on dyno tune...??


    sorry second photo is meant to be that
    1984 SA63 Celica - RIP , 1979 Ford XD - The Lunar Lander
    1972 TA22 Celica - Project Car ,1986 ST162 Celica SX - Gone
    1985 RA65 Celica - Me & ryleys rally car
    1974 TA22 Celica - Current project, 1972 TA22 - Wetish

  3. #3
    Current UZA80 owner Chief Engine Builder JustCallMeOrlando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Motor blown on dyno tune...??

    Quote Originally Posted by The GW
    But am i right in thinking, even if it had detonated a little before the dyno, it shouldnt have blown on a dyno because it shouldnt have been detonating on there, since that is what a dyno is designed to PREVENT?
    I don't know what you mean? A dyno doesn't prevent stuff from happening, it's a tool to load up the car and give repeated runs to tune against. He should've been listening using the right equipment for detonation though yes, so in that regard, he should've backed off.
    Teh UZA80 - Project Century - Remotely p00'd by association

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    GT4 Insane Backyard Mechanic 1gt48u's Avatar
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    Default Re: Motor blown on dyno tune...??

    Hi

    sorry to hear that happened, its certainly gut-renching

    did he make you sign any sort of waiver against such things happening,
    or did he say that dyno tuning is at your own risk??

    cheers
    Troy

    ST185 GT4

  5. #5
    Junior Member Carport Converter Roscos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Motor blown on dyno tune...??

    Well, what can you say, it blow up on the dyno, it could have blown on the road while you driving it.
    You are just going to have to rebuild it and start again, it's a pain in the arse.
    As for them ringing you up and asking about the water, they would have known exactly what was going on as soon as it happened and they should have turned it off.

    As for getting your money back for the tune, read the small print and see what that says otherwise you have to go to VCAT or small claims and that costs more money.

    Well now you can build the motor better and get a few more hp from it.

    You have learnt the best lesson ever, if you are getting your car dynoed stand there and watch them, don't trust anyone.


    Roscos

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    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic hypo23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Motor blown on dyno tune...??

    not good news mate i know how you feel, been there a few times myself
    cheers steve,

    24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case..................coincidence?

    1ggte, 11.22 @122mph

  7. #7
    Junior Member Domestic Engineer
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    Default Re: Motor blown on dyno tune...??

    Have to agree with whats been said, sounds like he wasn't using all his equipment when running the car on the dyno..... Its a shit feeling having to dissemble/reassemble everything. Lucky the engine didn't hydro-lock.
    Rep points are for those who feel inadequate in other areas !

  8. #8
    I wouldn't trust a... Conversion King Smokey228's Avatar
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    Default Re: Motor blown on dyno tune...??

    Man, like i said, this is rough! But from what i've heard, there is sweet f/all for you to do but start over...

    But i'd recommend learning from your mistake. Find a new tuner! Although, it might have just been bad luck, i would find more comfort in going to a new tuner, if it happened twice at the same place i would literally shit your pants... Haha

    Cheers,
    Jase
    JZA023
    11.51 @ 126MPH | 430RWHP @ 21PSI

    Quote Originally Posted by YLD-16L
    Cuzzo is such a premature ejaculator he fertilised the very egg that he grew from

  9. #9
    Toymods Vice President Chief Engine Builder TheToyman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: Motor blown on dyno tune...??

    Can you post pictures of the top of the pistons please ?

    Can the tune house tell you what ignition timing it was running ?
    Can they tell you what your fuel pressure and flow is, and at what boost levels ?
    Can they show you a graph with boost and one with AFR ?
    What spark plugs were in it and what plug gaps are they ?

    Personally I would like to see the log of every run they did including the run before your cars (just to confirm it wasn't your car)

    What you have up so far really doesn't shed any light on what has gone wrong. At this stage there is no way to know what went wrong and you may never know. Sometimes things do just fail and what failed first.

    Driving the car around before it was tuned is not a gamble I would ever take and it does ad some grey areas as to when the bulk of the damage was done. Obviously its final death was on the dyno, but when the damage was odne and why is pretty unclear.

    It reasons like this that people freight there cars here (SAS) from all over Australia including Tasmania. Sucks major ass dude.
    1971 2T-B Celica TA22 ST.
    1973 2T-G Celica TA22, aka "The Unicorn".
    1976 2T-G Celica TA23, aka "The Colonel".

    History: Rods Classic Celica Sampler thread.

  10. #10
    Touching Automotive Encyclopaedia Aust162's Avatar
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    Default Re: Motor blown on dyno tune...??

    I also lost my motor on the dyno. If the motor has been damaged on the dyno from detonation then that is negligence on their part. Especially when you asked for a safe tune with only 6k kms on the motor. I suppose there are a few things you can do here.(pursue it, ask for some of the tune money back, demand for them to partially pay for your damages.. ) You need to decide what you want to do and think about how much time this will this take and how bitter you are about it.

    I too had a safe tune with 5000kms on my rebuilt motor but this one went fine! thankfully.

    I wasn’t there in-person when my 1st motor died. big mistake. Always be there when they tune it if you can.

    I have been present at all my dyno tunes since and on a hot day these people (i feel) tend to rush there tuning a bit between runs. My 3sgte was getting really hot and i was asking them to give it more time between the runs to cool. They were fine with that maybe something like this happened to yours?

    good luck with your decision mate
    *hearts* his 4age powered KE70 Panelvan!
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  11. #11
    Forum Sponsor Conversion King
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    Default Re: Motor blown on dyno tune...??

    without having all the logging its hard to tell,
    but whilst the green line looks fairly typical the others look like something is certainly not right, the orange graph being the worst of them generally if power starts to drop off sharply it means detonation is occuring (or a cooler pipe blew off) and whoever was tuning it should have known that, but if he persisted after the runs with all the peaks and dips in it id guess he aint that smart.

    the worst part is that generally no warranty is given and most ppl have a disclaimer against it.

    i feel your pain as this has happened to me b4 but there aint alot you can do about it.

    cheers
    linden
    Quote Originally Posted by WHITCHY
    Prefer someone around the Sydney area but will travel a few hours for a good box!

  12. #12
    DIY Bloodline Domestic Engineer Talasas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Motor blown on dyno tune...??

    I had a post going for this yesterday but Toymods died before I could post it. Anyway here it is:

    It's very unfortunate that this has happened because with the conditions that you describe, the engine should not have blown on the dyno. Now, ignoring things like someone making a mistake during the engine assembly for a moment:

    1) It seems that once he got to the green line he should have stopped, provided the AFR was okay, and the only way I can think of them being not okay is if they are systematically too rich or lean (going by the shape of the graph). If the runs are in the order you describe then that's very unusual that they continue to tune or even perform another run. A good dyno operator can nail a "conservative" tune in around 3-4 runs.

    2) I can't believe they charged you a) that much b) at all, looks like they should be accountable for something at least and they least they could do is not charge you for it since they didn't finish the job. Of course if you signed a waiver then it's not gonna help.

    3) It's really hard to read most of that graph because their stupid wanky logo is hogging the page, it's supposed to be a watermark, idiots.


    I'm sorry, but it really gets my blood boiling when this happens and it always does. Never leave your car at any workshop without you being there! Something always gets cocked up and you are the one that has to wear it
    "In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move." -HHGG

  13. #13
    Junior Member Grease Monkey The GW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Motor blown on dyno tune...??

    sorry guys havent been able to get on toymods....i will most certainly get pics of tops of pistons...i have copies of power run before the black line now (that is interesting) spiked to 195kw..i have all air fuel logs, and these are all fine and a 30kw jump isnt indicated on air fuel sheets infact it gets richer then? i have all boost logs...and these are all fine, first run made 17psi and then he backed out coz of timing, then every run after makes and holds a consistent 15psi?

    ps. i read no waiver and was provided no terms and conditions of dyno
    1984 SA63 Celica - RIP , 1979 Ford XD - The Lunar Lander
    1972 TA22 Celica - Project Car ,1986 ST162 Celica SX - Gone
    1985 RA65 Celica - Me & ryleys rally car
    1974 TA22 Celica - Current project, 1972 TA22 - Wetish

  14. #14
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic jezza323's Avatar
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    Default Re: Motor blown on dyno tune...??

    ask for printouts with AFR's and boost also graphed, then you will be able to tell if they let it go lean through bad tuning (not enough fuel)

    ideally they should be good at their job and have picked up the detontation before it broke anything, but they havent, it blew your motor

    realistically, they will not own up to it

    EDIT: (posted same time as you) if AFR's are fine then advance is the only thing that could have caused it......if they got out of it on first run, they should have fixed it then

  15. #15
    DIY Bloodline Domestic Engineer Talasas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Motor blown on dyno tune...??

    I'm thinking the same thing, if the mixture didn't kill the motor the timing must have. Truth be told most times they won't rig up the ignition monitoring unless you tell them to, which is why it's always critical that you set you base timing as best you can before taking it to the dyno.

    Otherwise the ignition monitor would have picked up that the advance is way too high for the given rpm and they could have backed off. It almost smells like they just wanted to run it to redline so they could get a graph reading and go from there with the adjustment, not the best thing to do with out-of-whack ignition.
    "In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move." -HHGG

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