Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21

Thread: RA23 Vs 2JZ-GTE - Part 3 (Ben Hur's got nuthin')

  1. #1
    TorquePilot 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    ACT
    Posts
    35

    Default RA23 Vs 2JZ-GTE - Part 3 (Ben Hur's got nuthin')

    Well,

    So much has happened yet so little to show for it... except an overflowing garage and a yardful of carbodies. I've been busy with a number of landmark shifts in my life, lost a partner, moved house, gained another partner and now about to +1 the family tree. I've spent some time writing a short novel and due to limitations of 10 pics per entry I'll split it into subjects by entry so we can all enjoy the bit most relevant:

    1)The Story so far
    2)Current State and Backyard Tour
    3)ACT Government Regulations (and how these goalposts move...)
    4)Front Suspension
    5)Rear Suspension
    6)More Technical Immersion
    7)What Next
    8)Conclusion
    Last edited by bugeyedcreepy; 24-06-2007 at 12:23 AM. Reason: I have fat fingers...
    If you were insanely fetish about power, how would it be personified??

    Current Projects: 2JZ-GTE/6speed RA23 and RA28, 1UZ-FZE/6speed RA28, XR6T/6speed TC Cortina - All with Mk3/Mk4 Supra suspension

    RA23 vs 2JZ-GTE Part 2 (Now with Pics) - http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?p=126140

  2. #2
    TorquePilot 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    ACT
    Posts
    35

    Default The Story So Far

    The Story So Far

    If you haven't read them, you can go read Part 1 and Part 2. Let me explain:

    I originally started one project before this RA23, anyone who's kept tabs will know of my TD Cortina running a Mk3 Supra floorpan and suspension with a Nizpro stage 2 XR6T and T56 six speeder,

    it's still going... progressing but still going.

    The RA23 was started when my wife wanted an equivalent toy car alongside her then main drive, a Mk4 TT 6speed Supra - along the similar lines to my daily driven BA XR6 Turbo and the TD Cortina buildup.... I thought it was a fair trade.

    Since then I've taken on another two projects, for a variety of reasons, I'm no longer with my wife and I've since found a new partner with many more great qualities... good or bad depending on how you look at it, Her name is Mel and she seems to be into everything I'm into albeit the V8 version of whatever it is I'd shove a stonking great turbo six into Neither of us see anything wrong with projecting these damned cars one after the other... like I said, can't work out if this is a good or bad thing... I've always had a penchant for the 69 Fastback Mustang (yep, there is another project in this....let me be strong, let me be strong!) but since I've worked out a nice marriage of style, power and uniqueness that would be an RA2x and 2JZ-GTE with the engineering to help it handle like a track weapon, why spend more than you have to when the classic Celica styles itself in the same image. Comparatively it's great value so while I'm at it, why stop at one?

    In that vain, Both additional projects are RA28's and both will be undergoing Supra Mk3 Frontcut Conversions and equivalent IRS fitment. Mine will have the 2JZ-GTE and hers is set for a recently acquired 1UZ with an Eaton M90 supercharger atop (although she's looking for some turbine mustered compression) just to make sure it goes okay. It's still going...
    If you were insanely fetish about power, how would it be personified??

    Current Projects: 2JZ-GTE/6speed RA23 and RA28, 1UZ-FZE/6speed RA28, XR6T/6speed TC Cortina - All with Mk3/Mk4 Supra suspension

    RA23 vs 2JZ-GTE Part 2 (Now with Pics) - http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?p=126140

  3. #3
    TorquePilot 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    ACT
    Posts
    35

    Default Current State and Backyard Tour

    Current State and Backyard Tour

    Moved it out to Here in Toymods Forum Members Rides, isn't this thread big enough already...?
    Last edited by bugeyedcreepy; 04-08-2007 at 08:43 PM.
    If you were insanely fetish about power, how would it be personified??

    Current Projects: 2JZ-GTE/6speed RA23 and RA28, 1UZ-FZE/6speed RA28, XR6T/6speed TC Cortina - All with Mk3/Mk4 Supra suspension

    RA23 vs 2JZ-GTE Part 2 (Now with Pics) - http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?p=126140

  4. #4
    TorquePilot 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    ACT
    Posts
    35

    Default ACT Government Regulations (and how these goalposts move...)

    ACT Government Regulations (and how these goalposts move...)

    It has been some time since I started this RA23, I bought stuff, asked around how to do stupid things, got referred to someone who certifies stupid things and then bought more stuff. The problem with all this is that once upon a time I could go to an ACT Certified Automotive Engineer and tell him what I wanted to do and he'd then tell me a way or two to acomplish it and then give me a bill directly proportional to the stupidity of the project. I liked it because I could (and would) pay through the nose to do something this stupid.

    Times have changed. Nowdays, the ACT Government has been aligning themselves with Department of Transport and Regional Services (DoTARS) National Code of Practice for Light Vehicle Construction and Modification (NCOP) – like so many other States. I found this out after calling my engineer 'round to show off my handiwork and having him call an “All Stop” on it. He let me down easy...”...theres... been some changes...” he says, they're all going to this “National Standard” and that he really has no say other than whether I conform to them well enough or not.

    Now, this National standard is a good thing... providing you hadn't already been working to a different set of rules, you know, the other ones that were in place when you started. The website is http://www.dotars.gov.au , the particular page we'd find interesting is http://www.dotars.gov.au/roads/safet.../vsb_ncop.aspx and the document involving engine upgrades is page 18 of http://www.dotars.gov.au/roads/safet...s_3Feb2006.pdf . Of course I'll save you the effort, the links are just for reference:


    The notes refer to how you can't include ancilliaries like aircon, towbar, etc and that you can only use sedans, not any wagon or heavier bodytype, so on.... bloody squeezers...

    Following all that though is an example table to demonstrate it in practice:


    I took one look at it and got to thinking, “These Bastards are plotting against me!...” They proudly announce my very project vehicle noting against it's weight that it could have any force fed mill up to 2934cc or more importantly, not my 2997cc 2JZ with some huffy snails shoved up it's butt.

    >: (

    Well then, according to the new bar, I miss out by 63 pox-ridden cc. Next most important point, Mel wants a pair of hairdryers hanging out the side of her 1UZ too, the new NCAP mod standards would make that a big fat hairy non-event. But wait, there's more. NCAP has a backdoor and I'm greasing up for entry.

    It is possible to create a radically modded vehicle (i.e it barely resembles the original design and implementation) and have it classified as an “Individually Constructed Vehicle” (or ICV). This is a kinda trump card that conveniently isn't touted much about in the standard. It circumvents all these stupid weight/cc marryups providing you could demonstrate adequate braking and pass an emmissions sniff test (hot run only). It really isn't that hard. The other thing that would've got me by is if the vehicle was built or modelled on one built during or prior to1949, the Hot Rod clause. I didn't think I'd convince them of this so I'll be going the earlier.

    Anyway, John Wilson (my engineer) was still a little green in this area since this really is new ground we're breaking, I'd be among the first to wail out such a beast under the new rules, Mel did some research and found out the basic process from the ACT Roads Authority here.

    As ICV's (all four of them) I need to write letters to the ACT Road Transport Authority with an accompanying letter from the engineer that states it'd all work and small furry animals will prosper in it's wake. The Department then has me in for a “talk” and when they're happy with the plan, give provisional acceptance. Generally we then have two years to complete and certify to the engineer's satisfaction and passing said ACT Transport emissions sniff test. This emissions test is apparently free here... dunno if this is a rumor or not but we'll be finding out soon enough.
    If you were insanely fetish about power, how would it be personified??

    Current Projects: 2JZ-GTE/6speed RA23 and RA28, 1UZ-FZE/6speed RA28, XR6T/6speed TC Cortina - All with Mk3/Mk4 Supra suspension

    RA23 vs 2JZ-GTE Part 2 (Now with Pics) - http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?p=126140

  5. #5
    TorquePilot 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    ACT
    Posts
    35

    Default Front Suspension

    Front Suspension

    The Front Crossmember subframe has now been cut and bent to shape, it fits to position and appears to maintain the appropriate subframe height in relation to the chassis. All that remains now is to weld plates into the gaping holes left by the cut-in and to mount the strut towers in place of the original, until very recently I didn't have a welder. I've also modded the original Steering Column to mate to the power steering rack input shaft using a little seen part connecting upper and lower steering column sections of a Mk4 Supra Steering Column as the connecting segment from the RA23 Steering Column to a shortened steering input shaft on the Mk3 power steering rack.


    Big Brakes to go on front - could be these and could be a bracket and BA Falcon XR/Territory calipers and rotors...


    Modded Crossmember with galleys cut in to fit the RA23 Chassis Rails


    More front crossmember mods, this is the trailing edge modded to bolt into the side of the chassis rails


    Me sneaking up on an unsuspecting strut tower minding it's own business


    My new pet strut tower


    Strut Comparo, this is the strut tower out of the frontcut I currently have


    The idea will be to mount this strut tower in place of the Celica's strut towers


    Not the best pic but there's about 80mm in height difference between the (taller) Celica strut height and the Supra's


    A collection of steering columns I had to choose from, from left to right, Mk3 Mk4 Celica RA2x. I was originally going to use the Mk3 Column for ease of use and all the rake and reach features it had... didn't fit well enough for my liking, especially with the ignition barrel mounted clear across the country


    I ended up using the original column, smacked out the studs that held the rubber coupling, redrilled the holes to take the perfect bolt-on piece from the middle of the Mk4 steering column...
    If you were insanely fetish about power, how would it be personified??

    Current Projects: 2JZ-GTE/6speed RA23 and RA28, 1UZ-FZE/6speed RA28, XR6T/6speed TC Cortina - All with Mk3/Mk4 Supra suspension

    RA23 vs 2JZ-GTE Part 2 (Now with Pics) - http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?p=126140

  6. #6
    TorquePilot 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    ACT
    Posts
    35

    Default Rear Suspension

    Rear Suspension

    The rear subframe is mostly cut-in, the only major work needing done now is the welding in of rear strut towers... if I can find any... they'll be quite tall and will need to have an access portal somehow cut into the parcel shelf for access to the strut cap nuts. I can't imagine the RA28's will have this issue, they're quite a compatible layout to the Supra.





    This is the resulting upper control arm mounts removed


    Here is the lower control arm mounts removed


    Another close up, not much better though, can't get under it to see


    IRS frame notched to go 'round a tight chassis, will get more pics when mounted to show it better.
    If you were insanely fetish about power, how would it be personified??

    Current Projects: 2JZ-GTE/6speed RA23 and RA28, 1UZ-FZE/6speed RA28, XR6T/6speed TC Cortina - All with Mk3/Mk4 Supra suspension

    RA23 vs 2JZ-GTE Part 2 (Now with Pics) - http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?p=126140

  7. #7
    TorquePilot 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    ACT
    Posts
    35

    Default More Technical Immersion

    More Technical Immersion

    The fitting of the engine won't be an issue once the crossmember goes in, the engine bays are approximately equivalent, the donk itself is the same size as a 1JZ and plenty of them have been fitted to Celicas already. I'll be chucking the clutch fan in favour of thermos but I'm hoping to pull the engine as far back as I can... if there is any play that is. I'm yet to see if the V161 will fit in the RA23's transmission tunnel and even then, gotta watch where the shifter pokes through, again, an R154 fits... or they get made to fit...(??)

    The Engine bay of the Celica is approximately 810mm front to rear (not including Radiator space) and the Supra measures out the same area as 870mm. The width in the Celica enginebay is slightly more than the Supra (810mm square vs 760mm for the Supra). Not terribly important really but after seeing how the Supra frontcut fitted into the Cortina I've decided I want to do the two RA28's in the same way. The RA23 will stay as it is with the Supra subframe modded to fit and a pair of strut towers welded in for correct ride height and strut fitment however I can see a number of advantages to having the firewall and engine bay chassis rails of the Supra, notably a recess behind the engine to allow a more rearward engine placement and possibly a number of other conveniences like Mk3 steering column, Mk3 aircon and heater box operation, Supra radiator and intercooler mount, etc... I will look into it further. By the end of these stupid projects, I will have found 50 ways to skin a cat.

    In any case, I've borrowed somebody's for sale picture, a pic of a TA23 that looks remarkably similar to the colour I'll be painting these Celicas and I've photoshopped in the 18” wheels and the approximate flare requirement for the wider Supra track (works out to be 60mm more each side as per previous update), this is how I imagine it. Enjoy.

    Last edited by bugeyedcreepy; 04-08-2007 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Forgot the Photoshopped Concept pic...
    If you were insanely fetish about power, how would it be personified??

    Current Projects: 2JZ-GTE/6speed RA23 and RA28, 1UZ-FZE/6speed RA28, XR6T/6speed TC Cortina - All with Mk3/Mk4 Supra suspension

    RA23 vs 2JZ-GTE Part 2 (Now with Pics) - http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?p=126140

  8. #8
    TorquePilot 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    ACT
    Posts
    35

    Default What Next

    What Next

    Well, I've spent enough time dickin' around and now want to get a wriggle up on all this... dammit, I need my yard back! After some minor shifting to make space, I'll be needing to mount the subframes to the RA23... that is after I pull my trailer out from under it. The subframes are pretty much complete now and if I can see them with plates welded into the cutouts and fitting easy when mounted then I can move on. I have everything I need, even a cheap chinese mig welder off ebay. Will also need to hit up the ACT Roads Authority to get proviso go ahead but this really should be a formality. I want to get it rolling so most other things will be easier when you can move it around. I've sectioned off that area beside the garage as an extra work area, I'll embark on de-stuffing the garage but it'll be quite some time before it becomes a useable work area. Once the subframes are fitted, the engine/gearbox fitting starts pretty much straight away. I still can't decide if I want to get the 2JZ-GE Turbo'd or sell it quietly and go a proper 2JZ-GTE and six speed setup, I'm leaning towards the latter. The stuff I still need:

    1)a Mk3 Frontcut Shell, preferrably with the front subframe crossmember, rack, hubs, brakes, etc, anyone doing themselves a 1JZ Upgrade should talk to me about sharing the costs, you take the engine, gearbox, wiring, dash, etc. and I'll take the rest.
    2)another IRS subframe
    3)another G series diff carrier + internals to stick in a subframe I have here
    4)a pair of 2JZ-GTE's plus V160's attached... even if they're in frontcuts.
    5)A Great Rate on transporting half a car from Canberra to Townsville.

    I will look at variations on this theme, e.g. Anyone having a Mk3 beyond redemption or accident damaged they want to get rid of at a reasonable price, I'll certainly look at buying it whole or part thereof, particularly where the engine, transmission, wiring, interior, etc. is removed.




    Not minding surface rust, the Cortina has turned out particularly well and as a result I'll be doing both RA28's using a Supra Mk3 Firewall and chassis rails... makes it all so much neater in the end. It'll also make it easier to get big engines in, these cars may look like RA28's but they could very well have certification and registration as Supras because of this floorpan and frontend transplant.
    If you were insanely fetish about power, how would it be personified??

    Current Projects: 2JZ-GTE/6speed RA23 and RA28, 1UZ-FZE/6speed RA28, XR6T/6speed TC Cortina - All with Mk3/Mk4 Supra suspension

    RA23 vs 2JZ-GTE Part 2 (Now with Pics) - http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?p=126140

  9. #9
    TorquePilot 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    ACT
    Posts
    35

    Default Conclusion

    Conclusion

    So let me recap, I now have on the boil: an XR6T powered TD Cortina, a 2JZ-GTE Powered RA23, another 2JZ-GTE this time in an RA28, Another RA28 with a 1UZ-FZE, My Own XR6T Falcon and Mel's XR8 Ute will soon get some more herbs, bugger me if any of them are getting close to finished! This nasty little habit of starting projects is becoming monumental and spread across two states. I now aim to "Not Start" any more projects with a view to consolidate where I'm at. I'm also open to help from anyone who may have constraints on doing their own projects and desperately want to help another who has quite the opposite problem... I'm serious and willing to trade parts, money and grub. I'm also willing to buy parts you're after if you can hit defined goals... naturally this would be by negotiation, try me...).
    If you were insanely fetish about power, how would it be personified??

    Current Projects: 2JZ-GTE/6speed RA23 and RA28, 1UZ-FZE/6speed RA28, XR6T/6speed TC Cortina - All with Mk3/Mk4 Supra suspension

    RA23 vs 2JZ-GTE Part 2 (Now with Pics) - http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?p=126140

  10. #10
    Old School Fanatic... Automotive Encyclopaedia jezz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    ACT
    Posts
    999

    Default Re: RA23 Vs 2JZ-GTE - Part 3 (Ben Hur's got nuthin')

    Holy crap you really are not kidding when you say you have bugger all room left at your place.

    Keep up the good work dude it will all come good in the end.

    Cheers

    Jeremy
    Bottom line: Life's too short, drive something you love.
    Canberra Celica Group

  11. #11
    I <3 Vito Conversion King RiceburnaGTV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    2,177

    Default Re: RA23 Vs 2JZ-GTE - Part 3 (Ben Hur's got nuthin')

    Hey mate good work on the write up.. Just a tip tho if you want this to become a reference guide/sticky post just drop the bit about the garage/car situation and revert back to straight out tech info on the install and whats involved to do it. That way people dont have to wade through pics and stories to find out how to install a 2J. As its getting more like a members rides thread than a tech and conversions one.
    Plus rep,good work.

    Nath
    -Just Alloy Radiators-
    www.alloyradiators.com.au

  12. #12
    Party Animal Supreme Too Much Toyota MR 1JZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    6,576

    Default Re: RA23 Vs 2JZ-GTE - Part 3 (Ben Hur's got nuthin')

    holy crap dude your mental!

    this is spazzo...love it!
    Project Soarer II - Sold
    Evo 5 - The silver fruitbox
    "I'm the man who has the ball. I'm the man who can throw it faster than f**k. So that is why i am better than everyone in the world. Kiss my ass and suck my dick... everyone."

  13. #13
    TorquePilot 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    ACT
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: RA23 Vs 2JZ-GTE - Part 3 (Ben Hur's got nuthin')

    Well, I'm about to take the Butt of my Supra to Townsville so it can complete my Cortina, in the mean time though, I've made progress and will have pics of the engine and gearbox preliminary fitup.... (that's right, the six speed V161 fit in an RA23 trans tunnel with a little butter) which in turn allowed me to dummy fit and mark out permanent holes to mount the front suspension subframe.

    While I was there I also rolled down under the rear and sample fitted up the IRS for bolt-on permanency too.

    Wait til you see how far forward the front end will be moving to, it looks very similarly located to the IS200/250, very far forward and very little overhang up front. Custom guards coming my way now...

    Many thanks to Jezza, I now have me that 1UZ to play with, that will be a wait-til-I'm-finished-with-this thing though so don't hold your breath.
    If you were insanely fetish about power, how would it be personified??

    Current Projects: 2JZ-GTE/6speed RA23 and RA28, 1UZ-FZE/6speed RA28, XR6T/6speed TC Cortina - All with Mk3/Mk4 Supra suspension

    RA23 vs 2JZ-GTE Part 2 (Now with Pics) - http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?p=126140

  14. #14
    User Conversion King
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    NWA
    Posts
    2,885

    Default Re: RA23 Vs 2JZ-GTE - Part 3 (Ben Hur's got nuthin')

    is the cortina in townsville?

    i recall a guy (workshop) fitting a supra rear end to a ford of some sort. this wasnt yours?
    hello

  15. #15
    TorquePilot 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    ACT
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: RA23 Vs 2JZ-GTE - Part 3 (Ben Hur's got nuthin')

    Quote Originally Posted by brett_celicacoupe
    is the cortina in townsville?

    i recall a guy (workshop) fitting a supra rear end to a ford of some sort. this wasnt yours?
    Why Yes, Yes it is.... That guy in a workshop would be Dave Price, the engineer that'll be certifying it with the stonking great turbo six!



    it's getting close now...
    If you were insanely fetish about power, how would it be personified??

    Current Projects: 2JZ-GTE/6speed RA23 and RA28, 1UZ-FZE/6speed RA28, XR6T/6speed TC Cortina - All with Mk3/Mk4 Supra suspension

    RA23 vs 2JZ-GTE Part 2 (Now with Pics) - http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?p=126140

Similar Threads

  1. RA23 vs 2JZ-GTE Part 2 (Now with Pics)
    By bugeyedcreepy in forum Engine & Driveline Conversions
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 05-08-2007, 09:15 PM
  2. JDM AE86 & Euro AW11 part numbers & part diagrams
    By parrot in forum Tech and Conversions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-07-2006, 11:46 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •