Rust

[the_random_hero]

Finally had a bit more of a look in the TA22, found some places with what looks to be bad cancer I'm not sure how much of this is fixable, or whether it would be easier just to parts the car and find a chassis with less rust. Here are some pictures, with some description of where they are of.

Passenger footwell


Beneath rear seat, drivers side


Underneath photo above this one


Passengers side, behind seatbelt-bolt plate


Underneath the photo above this one.


Underneath drivers footwell

[oldcorollas]

thats not ideal....

[CheeseBiscuits]

As OC said, its not ideal...

However if you have a look at some members rides, there are people that have fixed worse shells...

[styler]

its not what you can see and get to, its what you cant see or get to...
so if theres bad rust you can see, imagine what is hidden in rails and
box sections etc which are difficult for inspection.

money spent on a really good shell can be easily doubled for most average shells
for rust repairs and bodywork. it seems expensive at first for a clean shell but its much cheaper in the long run!!

but hey depends on what you want the car for and its overall condition and what your plans are for it - show, race, street, daily, thrash etc and how much you want to spend.

[gerald1]

i had this. i brushed the rust off, then got a sprayer thing, ya know your house and garden water sprayer type. and sprayed kill rust in there :-P

[o_man_ra23]

My question is... do you have a MIG or TIG welder, and can you use it?? and are you confident in using it on this car??

If the answer is no, buy a better shell it will be cheaper. If the answer is yes, then start cutting. When you buy new plate, buy rust repair sections where possible, and use high quality galvanised mild steel sheet the same thickness that the rusted metal USED to be. When you cut the rust out, cut squared sections (they are easier to re-make) and if you cut a piece and find that part of your cut went through a thin section (half rusted) cut further along until you get to good metal.

[JZA70R_92]

Its metal and its fixable with the right equipment...if you dont feel like fixing it I would sell the shell and purchase another one though it could be worse then this or better. If it were me I would fix this shell at least you know after its a good one!!! dont get it crushed!

[Joel-AE86]

Definitely repairable with some time, effort and a decent welder.

An interim fix to prevent the cancer spreading is to treat with POR15. PPG in aus distribute this stuff and it is king for rust protection.

Then when you have the time and effort, cut sections and replace with new steel.

[JZA70R_92]

most of the rust is in places that are easy to shape...Ive seen and also purchased a Bender break off ebay for approxx $100...makes it easy to bend metal to do a nice job. As joel said treat all the rust as most of the time around the bubbles will be "surface" rust that is breeding so better to stop it spreading further! Under that soundproofing will be more rust....those things do more damage then sound proofing.

[the_random_hero]

My question is... do you have a MIG or TIG welder, and can you use it?? and are you confident in using it on this car??

If the answer is no, buy a better shell it will be cheaper. If the answer is yes, then start cutting. When you buy new plate, buy rust repair sections where possible, and use high quality galvanised mild steel sheet the same thickness that the rusted metal USED to be. When you cut the rust out, cut squared sections (they are easier to re-make) and if you cut a piece and find that part of your cut went through a thin section (half rusted) cut further along until you get to good metal.

I'm a fabricator, so no issues with the welding gear/knowledge to use it. I wasn't sure if it would be too much hassle to fix, but then I did get the car for really cheap and the rest of it is still good. Almost all of the rust in the entire car is concentrated in those 4 sections - there's a little bit of other rust around the bolt holes, but it's only surface.
Thanks for the confidence booster guys, I was almost ready to start putting up ads for parts

[LeeRoy]

I don't agree with scrapping it. Mine is fairly rusty but they're a classic car and if everyone just throws them out when they get a bit of cancer there will be none left before you know it.

Granted that a shell will be cheaper but your taking a gamble;
- Buy a complete car? once you strip it it may be as rusty as yours.
- Buy a shell? could be rusty like a complete one or could be bent.
- Buy a repaired complete car? maybe it had dodgy repairs done and rust will resurface.
- Buy a repaired shell? same as above.

If you want it done right, do it yourself.

Have a look at osix in the members rides thread. His car was almost complete rust - rust everywhere, and he repaired it.

[the_random_hero]

I don't agree with scrapping it. Mine is fairly rusty but they're a classic car and if everyone just throws them out when they get a bit of cancer there will be none left before you know it.

Granted that a shell will be cheaper but your taking a gamble;
- Buy a complete car? once you strip it it may be as rusty as yours.
- Buy a shell? could be rusty like a complete one or could be bent.
- Buy a repaired complete car? maybe it had dodgy repairs done and rust will resurface.
- Buy a repaired shell? same as above.

If you want it done right, do it yourself.

Have a look at osix in the members rides thread. His car was almost complete rust - rust everywhere, and he repaired it.

Yeah, these thoughts were also running through my head. I has started to think through selling it + buying a KE20 off a mate, but after seeing some rides and what has been done, I think I'm going to keep it.
I pulled a bit more apart today, I can't believe every panel is almost completely straight, apart from the rust. I've contacted Panel House, hopefully they'll have some bits there to help me out.

[web]

I don't see much reason why this shell should be hiding a lot of further damage. The worst spot of the four (drivers footwell) seems to have a root cause in some accident (kerb or lift) in the past.

The *hard* to repair sections are the drip rails, F/R windshield rims, and the wiper mechanism box above the dash. If those are fine, the shell is an easy fix. For the latter, you look at its drains ahead of the top door hinges first. The rear fender lips tend to rust as well (as rust gets into the seam between inner and outer wheel well), but off the shelf repair sections exist for that, making repair much easier.

Also mind the fact that bar under the seatbelt mounts that connects the chassis rail to the sill with a lower control arm mount in the middle (the one you have rusty on both sides) is thick steel and may even be more than one layer, not sure. Depending on how daring you are, repair is either difficult (if you cut only small rusty pieces) or fairly easy (removing some spot welds to liberate a larger section so you can reach underneath as well)

(living in a much more "rusty" climate than you, I kinda know my way around the A2x celica chassis...)

General "bulletproof rust repair" tips... clean up well, don't trust rust inhibitors/converters for anything more than absolutely necessary. Most of all, this looks a DIRTY shell and dirt holds moisture, promoting rust. Stripping damaged areas to bare clean metal is still the best. Use converters/inhibitors only where minor pitting remains after stripping, and it's too little to warrant replacing metal. Then still prime and paint the area afterwards. Any pitting around a rust hole just needs to be cut out with that hole. Don't box in rust with fresh metal - remove ALL rust before even beginning to make repair sections. This may mean that the passenger footwell spot needs a small piece of floorpan removed as well, to properly get to that hole that probably extends down into the seam between floorpan and sill. The sill is one piece vertical all the way down to the jacking point, the floorpan has a small flap bent down and spot welded to it. From the pic I'm fairly sure rust has gotten into that seam ; doing a permanent repair means getting it out of there as well. I fixed the exact same area on my TA23 just months ago...

Try a weldable primer on areas that will be hard to reach after welding back together, so they will at least have SOME paint on them. Seal any seams with flexible overpaintable sealant, then prime again, paint, let dry and optionally apply anti-rust coating of choice after that. Don't spray tar on unpainted or rusty metal - it will rust under the tar until the tar flakes off, along with the car's body underneath.

For thin plate repairs it can be easier to do a bit of overlap, punch small holes in one side and fill them up with "spot" welds, rather than butt welding the plates together. It just leaves you with a seam to seal. They make pliers that press a "step" into a plate so the repair section will still be at the same height as the original panel, only the overlap would be thicker.

This spot welding technique is best practiced first on some scraps, it requires totally different settings from sheet metal butt welding. (more power, or the spot weld won't penetrate enough). Once you get the hang of it, you wonder why people try to butt weld thin sheet metal The one weakness is the potentially sensitive (to rust) seam, but with both plates clean, it's usually easy as pie to seal up well. OTOH, if a fabricator like you has no problem doing quick butt welds that seal (rather than have tiny holes all over), there's no reason to do the spot welding thing except maybe to prevent warpage. Mere mortals struggle to make pretty butt welds on thin sheet metal...

[the_random_hero]

I don't see much reason why this shell should be hiding a lot of further damage. The worst spot of the four (drivers footwell) seems to have a root cause in some accident (kerb or lift) in the past.

The *hard* to repair sections are the drip rails, F/R windshield rims, and the wiper mechanism box above the dash. If those are fine, the shell is an easy fix. For the latter, you look at its drains ahead of the top door hinges first. The rear fender lips tend to rust as well (as rust gets into the seam between inner and outer wheel well), but off the shelf repair sections exist for that, making repair much easier.

Also mind the fact that bar under the seatbelt mounts that connects the chassis rail to the sill with a lower control arm mount in the middle (the one you have rusty on both sides) is thick steel and may even be more than one layer, not sure. Depending on how daring you are, repair is either difficult (if you cut only small rusty pieces) or fairly easy (removing some spot welds to liberate a larger section so you can reach underneath as well)

(living in a much more "rusty" climate than you, I kinda know my way around the A2x celica chassis...)

General "bulletproof rust repair" tips... clean up well, don't trust rust inhibitors/converters for anything more than absolutely necessary. Most of all, this looks a DIRTY shell and dirt holds moisture, promoting rust. Stripping damaged areas to bare clean metal is still the best. Use converters/inhibitors only where minor pitting remains after stripping, and it's too little to warrant replacing metal. Then still prime and paint the area afterwards. Any pitting around a rust hole just needs to be cut out with that hole. Don't box in rust with fresh metal - remove ALL rust before even beginning to make repair sections. This may mean that the passenger footwell spot needs a small piece of floorpan removed as well, to properly get to that hole that probably extends down into the seam between floorpan and sill. The sill is one piece vertical all the way down to the jacking point, the floorpan has a small flap bent down and spot welded to it. From the pic I'm fairly sure rust has gotten into that seam ; doing a permanent repair means getting it out of there as well. I fixed the exact same area on my TA23 just months ago...

Try a weldable primer on areas that will be hard to reach after welding back together, so they will at least have SOME paint on them. Seal any seams with flexible overpaintable sealant, then prime again, paint, let dry and optionally apply anti-rust coating of choice after that. Don't spray tar on unpainted or rusty metal - it will rust under the tar until the tar flakes off, along with the car's body underneath.

For thin plate repairs it can be easier to do a bit of overlap, punch small holes in one side and fill them up with "spot" welds, rather than butt welding the plates together. It just leaves you with a seam to seal. They make pliers that press a "step" into a plate so the repair section will still be at the same height as the original panel, only the overlap would be thicker.

This spot welding technique is best practiced first on some scraps, it requires totally different settings from sheet metal butt welding. (more power, or the spot weld won't penetrate enough). Once you get the hang of it, you wonder why people try to butt weld thin sheet metal The one weakness is the potentially sensitive (to rust) seam, but with both plates clean, it's usually easy as pie to seal up well. OTOH, if a fabricator like you has no problem doing quick butt welds that seal (rather than have tiny holes all over), there's no reason to do the spot welding thing except maybe to prevent warpage. Mere mortals struggle to make pretty butt welds on thin sheet metal...

Thankyou very much for all that advice, it's HUGELY appreciated. A lot of my welding experience has been on 4mm+ plate or tube, so it's going to be a huge learning step going to thin metal. I'm not extremely confident, but quite keen to learn.
I think a lot of the rust has come from a simple problem - leaky windows. It would explain why the rust is where it is, and supported by the fact there's more around the bungs in the footwells - the lowest point. I'm planning on remove a fair bit of the floorpan and replacing it with just flat steel, should make it easier to get to where the rust is along with being easy to do.
At the moment I'm thinking of cutting a good deal of the boot floor out (some is rusty) and replacing it with a slightly thicker flat piece instead of the wheel well. Other alternative is blasting the whole boot, POR15'ing and welding a piece of checkerplate in there to cover the whole thing.

[frostyadonis]

ive seen alot worse.

mustve been a coastal ride.

the sills will be rooted/full of bog

if your short of funds, then conceal,hide,body deaden,tar up,bog up everywhere

what the inspector cant see wont hurt anybody