4age running rough and lost acceleration

[DTrain]

Heyas,
After changing the injector o-rings on my 4age, the car is now running very rough. The car now has a very lumpy idle and on acceleration there is a very noticable lack of power, especially up hills. Also in the past the ae82 had a cold start rpm of over 2k for a few minutes, however not it barely goes over 1.2k-1.3k on startup. Im also pulling a diagnostic code 5 - my manual doesnt mention a code 5?? However that may have been there before i changed the injector o-rings.
Any help or ideas would be great.
Cheers,
Dave

[oldcorollas]

o rings wrong size and now leaking air? something not replaced properly? kinked fuel return hose?

knocked some other plug off?
accidentally dropped gunk in the top of the injectors?

[allencr]

After ... car is now running very rough.

Disconnect to find out which one or ones don't make any change/difference & aren't working, injectors, also the plug wires.
What's the compression?

[KARNAGE]

you didnt plug the injector plugs in the wrong order are all cylinders firing?

[Hiro]

The diagnostics manual doesn't mention a code 5 (I assume you mean 5 flashes of the CEL, then a pause and repeat, right?). Double-check exactly what the CEL is spitting out (with the diagnostics terminals bridged, of course).

[DTrain]

ok thanks for the ideas guys, ive had a bit of progress today.
took out the injectors and rail and reinstalled the injectors (o-rings i got from toyota so are the right ones). in the manual they mention insulators that go into the head? i cant see these but i assume they are in the head already?
tested all the injectors resistances and they come in at around 3.2ohms - manual says 2.3ohms approx, so i think they are fine. and the cold start injector is 4.2ohms - manual says between 2-4ohms.
installed everything again and started her up. the injectors were put in as far as they could (the grommet was touching the rail) but once the pressure was there they all came out about 5mm - i assume this is kinda normal (still in the rail but not butted up against the grommet). gave them a little turn each way like the manual says and theres no apparent leaks so i assume everything is good on that side. so i started to search elsewhere.
checked the air filter (fine) and the pipe (no leaks). took out the spark plugs, they were very black, gave them a quick clean - nothing outragious but better than they were. ill get a new set on the way to work today. put everything back on and it seems to pull slightly better but theres still a noticable power loss and kinda sounds like a wrx, the burble that its putting out on acceleration.
rechecked the error code and now its putting out a 58?? that doesnt show up in the manual either. but theres a bigger pause after the 8 than between the 5&8. could it be a code5 and a code8?

[oldcorollas]

the insulators are the doughnut looking things on the outside on the head end of the injectors.
LOOK and see if they are there.
the injectors coming out 5mm indicates that they are NOT there, and that you are getting air leaks cos the injectors are not sealing at the head..

see middle injector here http://www.snjschmidt.com/pics/motor/injectors.jpg

once you get those insulators on, it should be fine

edit: read this
http://www.yotatech.com/f116/injecto...ht-part-96664/

Its got two on the top of the injector, the small o-ring that actually seals the high pressure fuel and then the upper grommet (on the right in the pic above). Then there is the lower grommet (on the left in the pic above) the seals the injector to the intake manifold to prevent a vaccume leak

thats your missing 5mm




edit: these are (supposedly) 4AGE injectors.
top one has no insulator, bottom one has (crusty) insulator

ok thanks for the ideas guys, ive had a bit of progress today.
took out the injectors and rail and reinstalled the injectors (o-rings i got from toyota so are the right ones). in the manual they mention insulators that go into the head? i cant see these but i assume they are in the head already?
tested all the injectors resistances and they come in at around 3.2ohms - manual says 2.3ohms approx, so i think they are fine. and the cold start injector is 4.2ohms - manual says between 2-4ohms.
installed everything again and started her up. the injectors were put in as far as they could (the grommet was touching the rail) but once the pressure was there they all came out about 5mm - i assume this is kinda normal (still in the rail but not butted up against the grommet). gave them a little turn each way like the manual says and theres no apparent leaks so i assume everything is good on that side. so i started to search elsewhere.
checked the air filter (fine) and the pipe (no leaks). took out the spark plugs, they were very black, gave them a quick clean - nothing outragious but better than they were. ill get a new set on the way to work today. put everything back on and it seems to pull slightly better but theres still a noticable power loss and kinda sounds like a wrx, the burble that its putting out on acceleration.
rechecked the error code and now its putting out a 58?? that doesnt show up in the manual either. but theres a bigger pause after the 8 than between the 5&8. could it be a code5 and a code8?

[X kyle X]

OC im giving you +rep just because that was good,.!

[DTrain]

ahhh your a legend!! got some insulators today from toyota and sorted it out and she's running heaps better than it did. its still a bit sluggish at takeoff and theres still a bit of a wrx rumble but ill double check the timing in the morning.
its still putting out error code 5 & 8 or 58? so a bit more investigating and ill have her purring like a kitten.

thanks again oldcorollas!!

[DTrain]

hmm false alarm seems the car is still running like crap, really bad acceleration and noticable lack of power, and a very lumpy idle and rumble.
looks like back to the drawing board for me.

[oldcorollas]

did you check the timing with the T and E (???) pins shorted (check actual pins), or just tested without shorting?

are any of the cylinders totally missing? or is it intermittent miss for all cylinders?

http://72.14.235.132/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=1&gl=au

O2 sensor?

and check out this awesome post!!!
http://www.toymods.net/forums/showpo...11&postcount=3

and also
http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/codes/

[Hiro]

Something like an O2 sensor problem would go away with full-throttle, right? Since the ECU operates on open-loop for WOT, thus negating the O2 sensor (and any associated problems).

[oldcorollas]

yes it would, and may nto be in operation at idle either... still seems like either air leak, or blocked fuel or similar? or really bad timing.. or.. something totally different

[DTrain]

well i fired her up and went about setting the timing. bridged the two pins and set it to 0deg - adjusted idle screw to sit it at 750rpm then took the connecting wire off and it went up to 10deg - idle at 950rpm. switched everything off, tightened up the bolts. cap and rotor button look like its about time for replacement.
put the cap and plugs back on and now it wont start?? im thinking it could be the timing this whole time

[oldcorollas]

can you take pic of cap and rotor?
what are your plugs like?
ever changed plug leads?

[DTrain]

Ok so turned it over to TDC (big whiteout mark represents the notch on the pulley and the white on the cover is the 0 marker)


and the circle on the cam is facing up through the oil filler hole


this puts the rotor at this angle (seems right?)


and this is the dizzy cap



and i checked the resistance on the plug leads and theres a bit of difference
coil lead - 7.6k ohms
#1 plug lead - 5.4k ohms
#2 plug lead - 6.4k ohms
#3 plug lead - 6.6k ohms
#4 plug lead - 6.7k ohms

so im thinking it might be worth getting a new set of plug leads? whats the best option do you reckon?

[oldcorollas]

no idea on cam timing or dizzy position, but carefully scrape that white crap (aluminium oxide) from the metal bits on the inside of the cap..
it builds up due to the arcing between rotor and those posts with each spark (ie, burning the alloy) and it is an insulator, so it just makes the spark travel further.

lead resistance doesn7t seem bad at all.

what abotu spark plugs?

[DTrain]

pull the spark plugs out and this is what i found on number4 spark plug - bit of wetness. the rest were dry but black as anything. and for some reason these are champion spark plugs?? i payed over $20 bucks each for ngk iridiums when i did a service on it years ago, and now have cheapy shite in there. you can see now why i dont like taking my car to a mechanic. anywho got some bosch platinums for $6each


since i havent changed the distributor cap, rotor, and spark plugs since i bought the car, i went out and bought new ones. installed and she's running again. better than it was but still not 100%. still a bit of a rumble down low in rpm, but it does rev well to about 4 or 5k then it seems to take ages to get to 6 or 7k. it used hit the tvis at 4.5k and take off all the way through to redline. ill have a go at playing with the timing again tomorrow.

also looked into the air intake leak.


there doesnt seem to be anything wrong with the hoses but there is an extra connection thats sucking in air

is there meant to be a hose on this or blocked off. blocking it doesnt affect the rpm or idle

[oldcorollas]

hmm, the plot thickens!

[jondee86]

well i fired her up and went about setting the timing. bridged the two pins and set it to 0deg - adjusted idle screw to sit it at 750rpm then took the connecting wire off and it went up to 10deg - idle at 950rpm. switched everything off, tightened up the bolts. cap and rotor button look like its about time for replacement.
put the cap and plugs back on and now it wont start?? im thinking it could be the timing this whole time

Your timing is.... retarded Should be set to 10 BTDC with the diagnostic plug shorted,
and will jump to 16 BTDC (or thereabouts) when you pull the wire out.

Cheers... jondee86