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Thread: 3tc wont start please help

  1. #1
    Been there.. Done That Backyard Mechanic Cob604's Avatar
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    Default 3tc wont start please help

    hey guys
    i need help as this is really confusing me

    i bought the 3t with a ra23 parts car that has a 1ggze mounted in it
    im trying to get the 3t running in my ta23 as a every day driver & then upgrade the ta23 to cope with the 1ggze then one weekend wack the 1ggze in it

    atm i have put the 3tc in the ta23 with a t50 on it

    the old owner told me that the carby could need a rebuild & that he drove it once off the trailer
    now it still wont start
    ive rebuilt the carby ( i know it is getting fuel, when i turn the electronic fuel pump off & crank the fuel in the float bowl goes down)
    ive replaced the spark plugs, points, dizzy cap, dizzy rotor & a few other things

    on saturday i finished rebuilding the carby i wacked it on & also had recharged the battery. cranked it & as there is no exhaust it shot 2 flames out of diferent cylinders. so i pumped the throtle a few to many times & flooded it. then cranked it & i got nothing for the next few minutes. since then i have replaced the spark plugs & tested them on all the leads ( i get a good spark while cranking out of all 4 cyl spark plugs

    put it all back together & tried it today
    i got confused with the timing & it as it SLOWELY turned over it backfired out the carby & i realised that it was firing as it was on the intake stroke, so i moved all the leads around 1 on the top of the dizzy & it tried to start again but didnt

    so now i think it is the battery as it turns over slowely & fires only when i open the choke

    please help

    thx
    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill
    When you get reaction like that it makes it all worthwhile.
    Bat mobil + 4age.. Engine painted, Fitting up now. Not long...
    Live life on the edge.

  2. #2
    Write English! Grease Monkey GasedT18's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    Has the 3T-C been stored for a long time?
    Do a static timing, check the firing order.
    Check the point gap again.
    Check the earth leads.


    D
    T-18 SE series 2 1982 3T-C dual fuel, now under resto
    3T-GTE rebuild with fancy gas bits under consideration
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  3. #3
    Junior Member Grease Monkey Born-Enthusiast's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    I'd have to agree with GasedT18.
    Take off the dizzy cap and turn the engine to top dead center. The firing order should be 1-3-4-2 so adjust the leads in this order clockwise around the dizzy cap with lead 1 being inline with first initial spark. To find TDC use a 19mm spanner to manually rotate the crank now remember that piston 1 comes to the top 2 times in a complete rotation so make sure you have it at the top just before the spark hits lead 1.
    make it look like this:
    http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us...rInfoPages.htm

    turn the crank so it is slightly behind spark and put dizzy back together. Don't over prime the engine one squirt of fuel is plenty. remember to remove spanner off crack bolt it hurts if it flings up and hits you. . . no really. Hopefully this should do it for you. just remember to let a little air in to when choking hope this helps mate
    The worst feeling is pulling apart something, then putting it back together and finding spare bolts.

  4. #4
    Been there.. Done That Backyard Mechanic Cob604's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    GasedT18-
    Has the 3T-C been stored for a long time?The guy i bought the parts car off had the 3tc in the car & drove it off the trailer, then he put the 1ggze in it.
    He told he it has been siting around 6 months.
    But its not seized & the compression is enough for it to run
    cyl 1- 120 psi
    cyl 2- 62 psi
    cyl 3- 88 psi
    cyl 4- 70 psi
    the engine was flooded when i done this i think but i only wanted a rough estimate

    Do a static timing, check the firing order.how do i do the static timing, as the exhuast is off atm i put the motorto tdc & looked at the exhaust valves & 3 was open which meant that 1 was firing, firing order 1342
    Check the point gap again.i set it with a .5 feeler guage i think, but im getting a strong spark so it cant be the electrical side of it
    Check the earth leadsall good

    Born-Enthusiast- yeah ive done all the timing & electrical side of it as im getting a strong spark & it fires when i play with the choke then dies

    Atm im thinking it must be the carby of the battery
    as it only fires when i open the choke, im thinking that its to rich & that when i open it a little bit its getting close to the right fuel to air mixture & therefore it fires.

    i adjusted the air:fuel mixture screw 1 1/2 turns out as my rebuild kit said BUT i read in my 3tc manual that its meant to be 2 5/8 turns out. so its either to lean or to rich, either way its not going to start if its that far out.

    so on saturday im going to
    test the resistance in all the spark plug leads
    Put the extractors on
    put some coolant in it
    put a fully recharged battery in it
    adjust the air fuel mixture screw to 2 5/8 turns out

    & try to jump start it off my mums car (that way my battery wont go flat & i can play with things to see what is the problem

    thx guys
    any other ideas
    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill
    When you get reaction like that it makes it all worthwhile.
    Bat mobil + 4age.. Engine painted, Fitting up now. Not long...
    Live life on the edge.

  5. #5
    I Tried to Eat Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    i think you forgot to open the throttle when doing the compression test...

    otherwise.. that motor is rooted
    "I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
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  6. #6
    ****** Backyard Mechanic 79GT's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    Hey mate, old corrollas prob right...that is a really bad compression test.

    but other than that, is the car running when you give it revs, and then just dieing when you let it drop back to idle, or just firing.

    if it is running at revs but not at idle, make sure your carby solenoid has an ignition feed, with out this the engine wont get enough fuel unless the revs are way up. something to check mate. good luck Jamie

  7. #7
    Been there.. Done That Backyard Mechanic Cob604's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcorollas
    i think you forgot to open the throttle when doing the compression test...

    otherwise.. that motor is rooted
    yeah i didnt open the throttle what affect does this have on the copression test

    im thinking its the air fuel mixture screw as ive got spark, timing & everything else
    but it only fires when i open the choke, meaning at one point its getting the correct ratio

    in the rebuild kit i got it says 1 1/2 turns out
    BUT in the manual it says 2 5/8 turns out

    so if the manual is right then atm its way to lean to start

    does anyone know the initial setting for the 3tc screws e.g
    Fast idle screw
    Idle adjustment screw
    Air fuel mixture screw

    thx heaps
    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill
    When you get reaction like that it makes it all worthwhile.
    Bat mobil + 4age.. Engine painted, Fitting up now. Not long...
    Live life on the edge.

  8. #8
    Been there.. Done That Backyard Mechanic Cob604's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    Quote Originally Posted by 79GT
    Hey mate, old corrollas prob right...that is a really bad compression test.

    but other than that, is the car running when you give it revs, and then just dieing when you let it drop back to idle, or just firing.

    if it is running at revs but not at idle, make sure your carby solenoid has an ignition feed, with out this the engine wont get enough fuel unless the revs are way up. something to check mate. good luck Jamie
    it doesnt start at all, the most i have got is it fired twice in a row, which a recharged battery & rebuilt carby

    READ ABOVE ABOUT AIR FUEL MIXTURE SCREW

    thx heaps
    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill
    When you get reaction like that it makes it all worthwhile.
    Bat mobil + 4age.. Engine painted, Fitting up now. Not long...
    Live life on the edge.

  9. #9
    Junior Member Domestic Engineer Hurricane's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    pull your rocker cover off, turn the motor over till NO. 1 pistion is at TDC( put a screw driving in the spark plug hole to see when it is a the top).

    and check that NO.4 EX valve has just closed the the inlet valve has just started to opened(this is your overlap) this will tell you now that NO.1 is at top dead and ready to fire. all so the timing marks on the pully will line up some were near 0, turn it to 10 before tdc when you check were the rotor button is faceing.

    now check were the dizzy rotor button is facing and set your fire order off this. 1342 runing clockwise.

    then see if it will fire, try with your foot flat on the floor and off, if it is flooded it will only fire at full throttle.

    if this fails, try turning the dizzy a little to change the static timing, it might be retarded to much so turn it too the left ( i think?)

    if that also fails then the only thing left with igntion is the points gap.

    big vacum leaks will also do some similar things to what you have. and burnt out or stuck open EX valves.

    with the idle mix settings i screw it all the way in and then turn it out 2 full turns.

    see how you go first though.
    cheers,dan
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  10. #10
    Been there.. Done That Backyard Mechanic Cob604's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane
    pull your rocker cover off, turn the motor over till NO. 1 pistion is at TDC( put a screw driving in the spark plug hole to see when it is a the top).

    and check that NO.4 EX valve has just closed the the inlet valve has just started to opened(this is your overlap) this will tell you now that NO.1 is at top dead and ready to fire. all so the timing marks on the pully will line up some were near 0, turn it to 10 before tdc when you check were the rotor button is faceing.

    now check were the dizzy rotor button is facing and set your fire order off this. 1342 runing clockwise.

    then see if it will fire, try with your foot flat on the floor and off, if it is flooded it will only fire at full throttle.

    if this fails, try turning the dizzy a little to change the static timing, it might be retarded to much so turn it too the left ( i think?)

    if that also fails then the only thing left with igntion is the points gap.

    big vacum leaks will also do some similar things to what you have. and burnt out or stuck open EX valves.

    with the idle mix settings i screw it all the way in and then turn it out 2 full turns.

    see how you go first though.
    cheers,dan
    I know the ignition side of things is a1 as ive replaced 90% of it all, it sparks good when i hold a spark plug near the strut tower bolt
    & just test the timing ect i moved all the leads counter clock wise 1 post & cranked it & it backfires out the carby so i now that they are all right(moved then back to normal)

    there is only 1 vacum hose attached atm as i dont know where all the rest go.

    ill try tomorrow with the fuel air ratio mixture screw as it makes sense that atm the screw is to far in & there fore to lean.
    When i close the choke it is to rich
    so thats why when i open the chock it fires as it must be getting close to the right ratio.

    IT ONLY FIRES WHEN I OPEN THE CHOKE THERFORE THE PROBLEM IS WITH THE FUEL SIDE OF THINGS

    DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE THE VACCUM HOSES GO, COULD I GET A DIAGRAM OR SOMETHING.

    & HOW DO I TELL IF IT A 2TC OR 3TC CARBY AS THE 3TC HAD 2 WIRES COMING OUT THE IDLE CONTROL THING RIGHT?

    thx heaps
    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill
    When you get reaction like that it makes it all worthwhile.
    Bat mobil + 4age.. Engine painted, Fitting up now. Not long...
    Live life on the edge.

  11. #11
    ......... Carport Converter jeffro ra28's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    Cob, if your using the fuel pump that i gave to you with the car it may be pushing to much pressure for that carby.
    I had a suspicioun that it was to was much fuel pressure when i used it. But never actually checked it. It was slightly lazy to start also. Would foul plugs alot.

    If you were given a stock mechanical pump with the 3tc may i suggest you run with that. Simply bypass the current electric pump.
    Last edited by jeffro ra28; 12-07-2008 at 06:33 PM.

  12. #12
    Been there.. Done That Backyard Mechanic Cob604's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    yeah i see what you are saying but is nt that what the return line is for, & it cant be forcing the fuel through as the float level stabalises after it is full & the goes back to the tank

    the plugs i pulled out were completely black (too rich i think) & i installed new ones

    yeah i got a mechanical one on the side just means i have to stuff around.

    im nearly defient that its the mixture screw

    thx heaps
    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill
    When you get reaction like that it makes it all worthwhile.
    Bat mobil + 4age.. Engine painted, Fitting up now. Not long...
    Live life on the edge.

  13. #13
    I Tried to Eat Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    Quote Originally Posted by Cob604
    yeah i didnt open the throttle what affect does this have on the copression test
    if throttle is not open, then little air gets into cylinder, and you have no air to compress, so it looks like you have no compression.

    disconnect the coil from the dizzy, or otherwise disable it
    hold the throttle open.
    creank 3 or 4 times
    check reading.
    "I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
    "There is hardly anything in the world that a man can not make a little worse and sell a little cheaper" - John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

    AU$TRALIA... come and stay and PAY and PAY!!! The moral high horse of the world!

  14. #14
    Been there.. Done That Backyard Mechanic Cob604's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    ok but that still shouldnt stop the engine from firing

    it only fires when i open the choke so its a fuel problem

    what im thinking is this:

    the rebuild kit i got said the screw the mixture screw out 1 1/2 turns
    where the proper manual says turn it out 2 5/8 turns

    so if the manual is right the car is very lean atm

    & when i close the choke it becomes to rich

    & therfore when i open the choke to a point it fires as it is sucking in the rigt air & fuel ratio

    what do you all think

    thx
    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill
    When you get reaction like that it makes it all worthwhile.
    Bat mobil + 4age.. Engine painted, Fitting up now. Not long...
    Live life on the edge.

  15. #15
    ......... Carport Converter jeffro ra28's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    Mate, best nail this thing one at a time. Do yourself a favour and rig up the standard mechanical fuel pump. The electric pump that is on the car is designed for a 6 cylinder and is pumping way to much fuel probably pumping fuel past your needle and seat. It was two big for the handy 2tg i had in it and its going to be way to big for a stock 3tc. It may not fix your problem but its an arrow pointing in the right direction. It should be done anyway.

    A simple mixture screw shouldnt prevent your engine from starting and running.

    Only other advice i can offer is make sure your battery is FULLY charged. Not this rushed half charged slow cranking bullshit.
    Last edited by jeffro ra28; 13-07-2008 at 10:13 AM.

  16. #16
    Been there.. Done That Backyard Mechanic Cob604's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    hey guys i just took the rocker cover off & when 1 is at top dead center 4 ex valve just closed & 4 inlet is just opening

    & all the valves move in the right order 1342

    i tried today & it started to fire when i sprayed fuel down the carby, it wont fire when i do anything with the carby.

    ive tried the air fuel mixture & nothing
    ive tried moving the dizzy & nothing

    it must be fuel as it only fires when i spray fuel down it


    engine timing is right
    dizzy timing is right
    its got spark
    its got compression
    i tried jump starting it & thing (even with a fully recharged battery)
    its in neutral
    & the extractors are on

    so it must be fuel


    for a few seconds it fired continously when i was spraying fuel down the carby when i stoped spraying it went back to cranking

    thx
    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill
    When you get reaction like that it makes it all worthwhile.
    Bat mobil + 4age.. Engine painted, Fitting up now. Not long...
    Live life on the edge.

  17. #17
    Junior Member Grease Monkey Celica_73's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    As 79GT said
    make sure your carby solenoid has an ignition feed
    Have you check this! Unless I've missed it I can't see a result from this suggestion. If this solenoid isn't getting power it shuts the fuel off, main purpose is to stop "dieselling" when you turn the ignition off.

  18. #18
    Been there.. Done That Backyard Mechanic Cob604's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    hey guys

    yeah i thought of that today & gave it power & it makes a click when it gets power

    & nothing

    any way im thinking water in the fuel as there cant be much more

    so im going to buy get a full jery car of fuel & run a hose to the mechanical pump & try then
    that will rule out the pump & the fuel

    then it must be carby related

    as i sprayed carby cleaner down it today while cranking & it started firing continuosly but not fast enough to start

    thx guys
    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill
    When you get reaction like that it makes it all worthwhile.
    Bat mobil + 4age.. Engine painted, Fitting up now. Not long...
    Live life on the edge.

  19. #19
    JoeyJoeJoeJuniorShabadoo Domestic Engineer joey's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    Dude before you go spending $30 on 2 Litres of petrol just connect it up to the mechanical pump to make sure, wont take long at all and unless the mechanical one is cactus you can definantly rule it out of the equation. I dont know what type of electric pump it is but if is the one jeffro has explained then my money is that its the problem.
    If it works and its the electric fuel pump that was buggered then get a new low psi electric fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator just to keep an eye on things (a rough guideline is that it should be pushing no more than 3psi max to the carby).
    Mr Shabadoo.
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  20. #20
    ......... Carport Converter jeffro ra28's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3tc wont start please help

    the fuel pump in the car shouldnt be screwed. Just way to big for a 3tc. Pumping to much pressure, it may not solve the problem but its something that is easily fixed if the mechanical pump is handy plus it needs to be done anyway.
    When i had my 2tg in the car it was always lazy to start and fouled plugs regularly, i pointed my finger at the pump.

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