Tuning engine for ethanol

[Norbie]

So I'm planning to have my 2JZ-GTE tuned to run on Shell V-Power Racing fuel (100RON with 5% ethanol). I don't want to start another discussion on the theoretical pros and cons of this fuel, I'm just wondering if anyone has actually done this yet - ie tuned an engine specifically to run on this fuel?

FWIW my goal is to squeeze every last HP out of my GT35 which means I'll need to run some pretty serious boost, and from what I've been told this fuel has excellent detonation resistance.

I've got dyno time booked for the 25th, so assuming I actually have the engine back together by then I'll post the results here.

[thechuckster]

no experience as such but it's not really tuning for ethanol fuel, rather you're tuning for 100R with added ethanol.

Stoich AFRs are still going to be near 14.7:1 - but you're going to be able to run more timing on boost.

You should invest in a wideband sensor - or at least get a 19mm bung for one put into the dump pipe before fitting to the engine so you can fit a bosch sensor at a late date. The factory sensor will only be a narrowband.

[Kyosho]

Norbie: I haven't done it myself, bt some guys on SAU have

The results from memory:
Tuned for Shell 98, good strong power.
Fill up with the ethanol 100 Octane, power actually dropped, but upon a retune, from memory they pulled like 30more KW at the rears.

So it's worth it, if you're going to stay running on it.

[Norbie]

Chuckster: I'm not doing any tuning myself so narrowband sensor will be fine.

Kyosho: thanks, stories like this give me more confidence in my decision. Yes I know I'll have to exclusively use this fuel from now on, but the good news is there's a servo close to my house which stocks it.

[Kyosho]

See, no servo near me stocks the 100Ron Ethanol, only the 91 ethanol shit...

[thechuckster]

norbie: ECU will be unlocked after tune? get different fuel maps - one for normal petrol, another for 100RE.

[JustCallMeOrlando]

Does your ECU have a knock sensor? Tune it for 100 and get it to retard timing if you get any knocking if you get stuck?

[Norbie]

No knock sensor, it's a humble E6K.

As already mentioned the car will run exclusively on 100RON fuel so there's no need for these solutions!

[Screamn_Sleeka]

Nothing special needs to be done. Just needs to be tuned in the same way as if it were using normal fuel. With only 5% ethanol there is going to be near no difference. The petrol we use is a mix of at least 5 chemicals, in various percentages, adding a little bit of another is no major experiment. The only issues you can have with this general kind of fuel mixing is if you use methanol as its slightly acidic and dissolves aluminum alloys.

The difference in tuning with the 5% ethanol will be less than the changing weather conditions from day to day.

[JustenGT8]

Another option Norbie is have your own drum of Toluene sitting at home and use for 20% mix with 98.

I'm hanging out for E85 to become common, as it is in UK....can't be too far away.

[chris davey]

yeah me too!

My car runs solely on Vpower racing plus octane booster. At one stage I started using 98RON + octane booster and there was still no knocking so I am not at the knock limit yet. However, when running on the dyno (only 15psi though) we advanced the timing a bit and it didn't make anymore power so we were already at MBTT on the 100+OB mix. Pulled 2deg timing out to run a 50shot of nitrous and still absolutely no knock (as expected as a 50shot isn't a whole heap)

Norbie: if you want to take a look at my timing map I would be glad to do some swapping of info. with you email me if you want jzpowahz at gmail dot com.

[v8supra]

My tuner had 2 fuel tanks in his 3T KE25 - one ethanol, the other pump fuel. He had a switch that changed maps and fuel pumps. I asked him about return lines and he said that it usually puts a tiny bit of the other fuel into the tank, but that was never an issue.

You could call or email him to have a chat rtls1.com. If you mentioned me he might take you more serious.

[JustCallMeOrlando]

As already mentioned the car will run exclusively on 100RON fuel so there's no need for these solutions!

How about if you drive it to Dubbo, or Sydney for that matter?

[Norbie]

Another option Norbie is have your own drum of Toluene sitting at home and use for 20% mix with 98.

I'm hanging out for E85 to become common, as it is in UK....can't be too far away.

I know people who do the toluene thing but that's more hassle (and expense) than I'm willing to deal with right now, although if I don't get the power I'm chasing it is an option in future.

E85 would be awesome, in fact I'd happily run my car on E100 if it was available from the pump!

What's this about ethanol corroding aluminium? Don't they sell beer in aluminium cans? Can't say I've seen any beer cans corroding lately!

[kugzs]

methanol not ethanol

[Norbie]

Norbie: if you want to take a look at my timing map I would be glad to do some swapping of info. with you email me if you want jzpowahz at gmail dot com.

I'd be happy to compare notes after the tune is done, I'll talk to you in a couple of weeks.

How about if you drive it to Dubbo, or Sydney for that matter?

Not a problem, just keep it off boost while running inferior fuel. This isn't hard to do when you're travelling at constant speed for hours on end. Besides, on the highway I have a range of > 600km (shouldn't be much worse with the new setup, still has closed loop) so that gets me most of the way there before I have to use crap fuel.

[Norbie]

methanol not ethanol

Righto, this discussion is about E5 pump fuel though, no methanol involved.

[chris davey]

Sounds good

You going to have it all tuned prior to dragtime yeah?

BTW what sort of numbers are you shooting for?

What is mod list now?
gt35R 1.06
272's
E6k
100RON

If you cranked that turbo to its limit I reckon close to 550rwhp or so would be doable with those cams.

[adamaw11]

I'm curious about a comparison between 98 octane E10 and the 100oct E5

I've read articles where they've proven the E10 98 (boost 98 from united servos) made about 20rwkw (288 -> 310 or so) more than with bp ultimate in a gtr, and boost 98 is actually cheaper!

still, I'd expect the 100 oct E5 to come out ahead, can't imagine it being by that much though, despite the price difference.

[Dieseltrain]

the Ethanol fuels will only make more power if you can tune for it.. Otherwise you might actually lose some power specially at part throttle, as the higher the octane, the slower the burn...

Least, thats what i was informed .