4age tech question?

[pro-16t]

Just wanna clear something up.. I have a 3 rib 4age MAP bigport ''blue hat'' series 1 88kw,
i also have a 7 rib 4age MAP bigport ''red hat'' 88kw are they rare to come in that form, is that series 2 "Hi-comp" with the beefier block that has larger gudgeons, rods and oil squirtes is that correct?

I'm also building up a 4agte its AE92 bigport AFM type, with DLI igntion & 8.0:1 compression that means no oil squiters. Is this correct? AE93 has slightly stronger rods ,same as used in 100kW 4age from Aus delivered SX/GTi corollas. Now is the ''red hat'' that i own the same block as the AE93 as used in 100kw GTi corollas? If so do both blocks have beefier internals & oil squirters? if they do i was thinking of scrapping the 4agze block taking the pistons & rods out and putting them in the "red hat" block so that means i'd have the oil squirtes to boot and yes i've searched everywhere to clarify this up http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7...geengines.html

http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20t...ne%20Block.htm

[roadsailing]

You are in a rare position indeed!

check all of the engines and you will know first hand what each one has in it.

[Big T]

I believe the 4age 7 rib bottom with bigport head does not have oil squirters either.

http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/phil....into%20RWD.htm

Near the bottom of the page. My cousin has one of these engines in his sprinter as well. I'll ask the previous owner if he noticed them as this engine was rebuilt within the last 2 years.

Eddie.

[pro-16t]

My gze is missing from that graph, mine has bigport with DLI.

[4agte]

all of the bigport gze's coilpack and dizzy dont have oil squirters also the rods are the same in all gze's afaik.

[Hen]

also the rods are the same in all gze's afaik.

This is incorrect as far as I have read.

Rods are the same in NA and GZE of the same year. Apparently the AE93 GZE and 16V rods identical, and slightly larger than the AE101 GZE and 20V rods (which are also identical).

I am also of the opinion that oil squirters were only found in the 100kw block and 20V blocks (and of course the corresponding GZEs), not the earlier ones.

Hen

[benjamin]

Does that mean that the MAP GZE's use smallport heads?

never mind I read further and found that all gze's with 8.9:1 comp have small port heads.

[4agte]

This is incorrect as far as I have read.

Rods are the same in NA and GZE of the same year. Apparently the AE93 GZE and 16V rods identical, and slightly larger than the AE101 GZE and 20V rods (which are also identical).

Hen

fair enough

strange that toyota would use a weaker rod in a later model gze
i would be interested if someone with first hand experience could confirm/deny this

[terryo]

having rebuilt many (dozens) of these 4AG's I suggest several of you are quite wrong.
1) the GZE rods that I've dealt with are unique to that engine. they are much fatter than either 16V or 20V ones. The early silver top 20V rods are almost the same as late 100kw. the black top rods are unique. Despite racing these engines for a long time, and running an engine shop, I've never seen a 4AG toyota rod break, so discussion on "weak" is all nonsense. However,any of them can fail by rod bolt breakage. All 4AG rods use dimensionally identical rod bolts
2) I have never been able to tell externally which blocks have squirters. I've never found a 86kw engine with them & only a few 100kw ones. In australia, the 100kw engine only came with squirters in some AW11's and a very few AE92's. Not all imported GZE engines have squirters.

[4agte]

the aus delivered aw11 to my knowledge only came with a red and blue versions of the 4age not the100kw motor.

[Big T]

having rebuilt many (dozens) of these 4AG's I suggest several of you are quite wrong.
1) the GZE rods that I've dealt with are unique to that engine. they are much fatter than either 16V or 20V ones. The early silver top 20V rods are almost the same as late 100kw. the black top rods are unique. Despite racing these engines for a long time, and running an engine shop, I've never seen a 4AG toyota rod break, so discussion on "weak" is all nonsense. However,any of them can fail by rod bolt breakage. All 4AG rods use dimensionally identical rod bolts

This i can sort of confirm as well. I handled a set of GZE rods the morning before going to strip down my smallport. The GZE rods looked definately bigger but i never had the two side by side so i figured it was just my imagination. It's strange that they're listed for the same part numbers though?

Eddie.

[Dimitri]

the last NA small port i pulled down definately had squirters.

one interesting thing i can take from this is you must be able to get a 7 rib block that does not have provision for the small ports oil drain/breather (rubber hose from the back of the head down to the block).

[Biggo]

Dimitri - Yes it is possible to get a 7 rib block with no oil drain at the back of the head. AFAIK my GZE out of an AW11 dosnt have provision for this pressumably because it has a big port head.

[Nim]

The late model AW11 4A-GE is the 7 rib block, with a bigport head. The AE92 Levin/Trueno also came with a 4A-GE with a 7 rib block, and a bigport head. So these would not have the smallport oil line you guys are talking about.

terryo, are you sure the 100kw don't have oil squirters? I find that interesting, as everything I've reaid sais they all do. But I suppose you've had your head inside them, so you'd know. Perhaps all the JDM smallports had oil squerters?

As for the origonal post, according to this site, none of the bigports had oil cooled pistons, and it doesn't appear to be higher compression (although the source for this info seems to think the red top made less power than the older bluetop, which doesn't sound right). But yes, the red top has the 20mm gudgeon (over 18mm), 42mm conrod big end (over 40mm), but still a 48mm main bearing - same as all 4A-GEs. That's assuming you can trust the info on that site, I've only played with 1 4A-GE, and I haven't gone into that much detail.

More stuff on 4A-GEs Here.

Hope that's helpfull.

[ira11y]

Having torn down a 4AGE or two in my time heres what i can confirm

3 rib blocks never came with oil squirters GE or GZE.

7 rib blocks all have oil squirters including the 7 rib with the bigport head.

some of the very early small port heads did not have an oil drains from the back of the head to the block and ditto for the oil drain in the block obviously.

as for the rods and gudgeons, somewhere i have a whole lot of photos of all the rods gudgeons cranks and pistons laying side by side ( ill see if i can find them when i have time) basically 3 rib block had 18mm gudgeon and quite a thick rod and a recessed piston, the later 7 ribs had a much lighter rod that was rumored to be stronger and i believe was the same rod used for the GZE with no changes.

Pistons were a raised dome except GZE which were coated and dished (and were not able to be proved conclusively to be forged or not forged by a metalurgy test thanks to oldcorollas, possible formation was by semi-solid formed) the 7 rib blocks used the 20mm gudgeon.

[terryo]

I have a 7 rib block in my workshop that does not have squirters. I've checked with Toyota spares and they confirm the OZ sold twin cam corolla seca only got squirters for about 9 months . I believe these all had 7 rib blocks
I have seen small port heads with and without the drain.
The stock GZE pistons I have, are definitely not forged. the unhead shape is a dead give-away. I dont recall what year engine they came from.
I've never seen any other 4A engine with the same rod as a GZE, but thats not to say it does not exist. It is definitely not the same as any 86, 100kw or 20V I've stripped

[Big T]

This is a stock GZE piston.





Can't really see it that well in the pic but it's definately dished about 2mm in the centre.

Eddie.

[feral4mr2]

Having torn down a 4AGE or two in my time heres what i can confirm

3 rib blocks never came with oil squirters GE or GZE.

the 4agze never came in a 3 rib block.

7 rib blocks all have oil squirters including the 7 rib with the bigport head.

no bigport 7 rib block wether it be a 4age or a 4agze came with oil squirters (yes i have pulled down and rebuilt a few of these).

the only engines i have 'personaly' seen the oil squirters in has been a smallport 4agze and a 20 valve engine. though all smallport engines are spose to have the oil squirter block.

[ira11y]

the 4agze never came in a 3 rib block.

actually they did very early GZE's had the 3 rib block it wasnt for long but they did have them, thats why you will also find the crossover 7rib block with the big port head, toyota tended to intorduce the developments of the 4AGE and its variants in stages.

no bigport 7 rib block wether it be a 4age or a 4agze came with oil squirters (yes i have pulled down and rebuilt a few of these).

the only engines i have 'personaly' seen the oil squirters in has been a smallport 4agze and a 20 valve engine. though all smallport engines are spose to have the oil squirter block.

yeah ive pulled down the odd one or two as well... I personally have not seen a 7 rib block without oil squirters, not to say that there may not be some out there, just ive never seen one.

[oldcorollas]

The stock GZE pistons I have, are definitely not forged. the unhead shape is a dead give-away. I dont recall what year engine they came from.

did their cross-section look like this?

and structure look like this
http://www.materials.unsw.edu.au/~sford/flowlines1.jpg