GZE power - what is it capable of with the charger

[blwnlevin]

My ae101 Levin GTZ needs a rebuild and I want to keep the charger as a turbo conversion is too costly at the moment plus nothn beats a charger wine... right

what kind of power could I withdraw from the GZE with the charger.... the rings are buggered so I will rebuilding the whole motor and cleaning it up. what sort of parts should i consider?? type of pistons etc.... I want to be able to get into 13's at least is this possible with a charger?

sorry if this has been posted before I did do a search but nothing what i was lookn for

[4agte]

i dunno about 13's but gunmetal has an aw11 mr2 with a levin gze that is making 140kw's atws with the sc12 id say thats about the limit. It does have oversized valves, 272 deg cams extractors motec etc etc so there has been a few $$$ spent. To make that kind of power with a simple turbo conversion would cost alot less imho.

[Dangerous Dave]

The standard gze pistons are forged, so the standard pistons should be fine.
You should
- Bolt on a big crank pulley for more boost.
- Decent exhaust.
- Front mount a decent intercooler.
- Maybe go aftermarket management
This should get you close to 150 rwhp and hopefully in the 13's (If anything high 13's)
Remeber if you get an aftermarket ecu, the corresponding power will depend on how good the ecu is tuned.

[4agte]

from my experience with my car an aftermarket computer makes a world of difference to a 4agze i feel that some mild cams may be worth considering while the engine is apart maybee of 264 duration (unsure about lift) and a cleanup of the inlet and exhaust ports.

[myne]

15psi on the stock computer, should be good for roughly 280-300nm of torque at say 3000-3500rpm and will probably slowly drop off to 160 or so at redline.
So I'd be guessing a max of about 150hp @ 3500rpm and 190hp @ 7000rpm @ wheels.
It's a guess though.

[blwnlevin]

I heard that bigport cams can make a difference on these as well?
so what keep the stock pistons but just change the rings.. are there different types available for this motor or are rings just rings. what type ecu POWERPC?

[4agte]

nope i dont think they make a power fc for the gze. There are pleanty of aftermarket ecu's u can buy for the gze. Depends on how far your going to go with your mods. Something basic microtech's are cheap and effective i use a wolf 3d ver 4 plus and found it very good but it retails for more than the basic microtechs but i believe the microtechs come with a base map so you can save money on tuning.

keep the stock pistons but if they are a bit iffy (worn out damaged slightly) then replace them if you can as they are dirt cheap like 300 buks or so then i think rings are 150 buks.

[blwnlevin]

sweet as... are the rings hard to get hold of? would anyone stock them like coventries

thanks for all your help guys..!!

[4agte]

your friendly local toyota dealership should be able to get them for you. If they cant get a hold of James Sloane at Castle Hill Toyota in sydney www.chtoyota.com.au their parts department is very helpfull and will send thing to you if need be.

[blwnlevin]

thanks dude, thats a BIG help

does worn rings cause lost power at all?

[Hen]

From what I have seen personally:

A stock smallport ZE with a 14psi pulley and a few mild mods (exhaust, front mount) usually makes in the region of 100-110rwkw

My stock smallport ZE with 10psi pulley, exhaust, frontmount and aftermarket ECU pushes 105-110rwkw.

I've seen a smallport ZE with 14psi pulley, 272 cams, camgears, front mount and factory ECU and it was dynoed at 120fwkw.

You tend not to see too many 4AGZEs making over 120kw at the wheels. It seems that making this sort of power is reasonably easy with bolt on bits. Getting past 120 will require more effort, like changing cams, going to the SC14, maybe a different intake manifold, aftermarket ECU etc etc.

Hen

[feral4mr2]

sweet as... are the rings hard to get hold of? would anyone stock them like coventries

any aftermarket spare parts place can get you a set of chrome rings to suit the gze pistons. C1741.(standard or oversize) is what your after, i prefer ACL rings.

[blwnlevin]

what will oversize ones do? give you more compresion?

[feral4mr2]

if you just have the standard bore and useing the standard pistons, then you only need to give it a hone and use standard size rings.
oversize rings are used when useing oversized pistons (or in some cases the end ring gap is too large).

[69 sprinter]

The power figures that Hen has mentioned are exactly what I have come across, I think you would be doing pretty well to get your car running in the 13s with that sort of power.
BLWNLEVIN by the sounds of your first post you idealy want to run quicker than 13s. If you want to go down the strip in a 13 or less with ease a turbo setup is the only way to go. I ran a low 13 with ease with a very basic turbo setup with a factory computer and 14 PSI. With a supercharger on the same boost same car and cooler etc I could only run a 14 Flat. I would recommend just keeping an eye out for someone selling a cheap turbo setup to suit your car.

[takai]

Yeah, esp the AE101 which are quite heavy.

My GZE was pulling 113fwkw with 10psi and the bigport 240* cams, the cams dont really give much in the bottom end, but if anything take it away there, but that is masked by the charger. But they do give a bit in the top end where the charger starts to run out of puff.
As for torque that setup ran at about 350Nm of torque and tapered off to 280 or so.

I dont have the car or documentation anymore so i cant give exact figures.

[myne]

If that's 280nm at 7000rpm, you're talking about 205kw - hardly a bad effort.

*edit* those numbers have to be wrong. For it to make a mere 115kw, it couldnt make 350nm any later than ~3000rpm - at which point it'd be making 110kw. It'd have to drop to 280nm BEFORE 4000rpm or it'd go over 120kw. You'd end up with a very peaky power band that'd be almost impossible to use.

[takai]

Yeah, as i said i dont have the graphs on me here as I gave them to the new owner along with the documentation. But it tapered off relatively slowly and then flatlined at some point. Ill see if i can dig up a scan of it, but not hopeful.

[dynomatt]

On the topic of cams, I'd caution against increasing duration...more lift is always good, but increasing the duration on a boosted car (turbo/supercharger) may have problems. It's due to inlet flow restrictions etc...

What's the factory duration of the 4AGZE?

I've just been through the process of rebuilding my 3SGTE, we improved the flow on the inlet substantially, and went for pretty wild cams...they had 11mm lift I think and about a 270 advertised duration. Unfortunately, it made bugger all power...and the duration (probably more likely the overlap) was probably the cause...went back to about a 245 cam and suddenly made heaps more power...

We think the theory is that in an NA engine, you are relying on atmospheric pressure to fill the cylinders, so extending the duration compensates at high revs. Whereas the turbo/supercharger is doing that work for you...

Dunno if this helps your evaluation, just some experience to think about.

Matt

[myne]

Actually, on NA engines the overlap, in combination with the inertia of the incoming and outgoing air, actually allows incoming air to be slightly sucked in by the outgoing air.

Ideally the inlet valve is supposed to open just as the pressure drops slightly inside the chamber and the exhaust valve is supposed to close *just* before the fresh air gets to it.
Also, with the longer inlet duration, the valve remains open AFTER BDC allowing the inertia of the air to carry it in. The valve is supposed to close just as the flow starts to reverse.
similar with exhaust valve opening. A slightly earlier opening will start the flow just before the piston hits BDC. The maximum potential for power has already been used, the pressure of the still expanding combustion charge will slow the piston down if it's left too late. Best to start the outward flow before the piston comes back. It reduces pumping losses.

Problem is, engines cover a wide range of flow over their rev range. So at low rpm, high duration cams can allow exhaust to start exiting the inlet, which disrupts the inlet flow, contaminates the charge and loses power. At the other end of the stroke, the still open valve can allow inlet gasses to exit, resulting in not only a contaminated charge, but also LESS of it.
On boosted engines, it can allow the inlet mixture to exit through the exhaust without being used, though the extra pressure of the gas can prevent reversal.

That's why cams have an effective range. Because at different RPM, different cam timings and lifts work more efficiently. This is why Honda's VTEC, Toyota's VVTi-L etc were invented. Honda's allows 2 distinct cam profiles to be used, with the engine switching at ~5000rpm. A lower cam that runs out of puff at ~5500rpm and a higher cam that is useless till 5000 rpm.

Beyond that, eventually there may be a way to electrically or hydraulically lift valves.
That would allow for infinitely variable timing and lift, which would be the absolute BEST way to make power at ALL RPM.