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Thread: 1G- FE engine and 6 speed gearbox (IS20 lexus) in TA23

  1. #1
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    Default 1G- FE engine and 6 speed gearbox (IS20 lexus) in TA23

    I bought an entrire IS200 without the shell for 200 euro's. LOL. I thought it would be a nice swap for the amount of money the engine costs me.
    I found out i could not use the stock ECU because of the lexus multiplex BUS system..... what's wrong with good old 12V and 0-5V signals.....

    This leads me to my first question: What would be a good stand alone ECU. I looked at Megasquirt, VEMS, ECU master etc

    I prefer the VEMS system because the processor is faster than Megasquirt and functions like VVti etc are all ready pre-programmed. The other reason is that i want to make this engine turbo one day and i can still use the same ECU, maybe a 1JZ in the future !

    I can use the engine straight away except for the idiot throttle body assembly. From pedal a throttle linkage to a wheel on the butterfly valve that does not drive the butterfly valve but a rod that drives a TPS sensor. This signal goes to the ECU and ECU returns to a servo motor. The motor drives a couple of gears that drive the throttle body and at the same time seems to be the IAC. For this reason this 1G engine was called "not very fast" because the ECU interferes with throttle response and results in a "smooth"running engine.

    the engine also as VVti and longer/shorter runner system intake. I don't know the name for this system

    I thought i could use the throttlebody of the 1zz-fe engine because this has the IAC already built on and the butterfly valve is direct driven by the throttle linkage.

    I can wire the 6 coils and injectors and all the other sensors and actuators to the VEMS system and i think with some tuning would be a very happy engine.

    Are there things i didn't thought of considering putting fuel injected engines in TA23 celica's, like wiring, what should i get rid of the old system?

  2. #2
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia
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    Default Re: 1G- FE engine and 6 speed gearbox (IS20 lexus) in TA23

    You are going to need a high pressure fuel pump and maybe some sort of surge set-up. Old celicas had a low pressure mechanical to feed the carbs.

    Not that I did the work myself on mine, but all the body wiring etc can be kept as is. Just put in the engine loom and join up the ignition circuit (including your new fuel pump setup which might need a relay for the greater power).

    There are a few people on here who have used the J160 gearbox also and you may need to alter clutch lines as I think the J160 is opposite site to the T series box. J160 might mean the transmission tunnel needs kinetic reprofiling. Modifications to the gearbox crossmember and possibly cut the trans tunnel to let the gearstick into the cabin. Not sure what the speedo setup is either. You may need some kind of adaptation to allow the celica mechanical speedo work with the j160.

    I'm not sure where the sump is on the 1G-FE but I think the ta23 crossmember is preferred by many of the 1GGTE conversion folks.

    All of this will be lurking in the tech threads or the various members rides threads. Search function on the forum is not the most helpful, but you should find quite a bit of information nonetheless.

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    Default Re: 1G- FE engine and 6 speed gearbox (IS20 lexus) in TA23

    The 1G-fe engine i have is front sump, the 2-TB that is in the car is front sump also so that should not be the problem, otherwise i have a guy that has over 30 celica's in pieces from all over the world so parts are not the problem. I thought about the fuel pump but that is not an issue because i want to use the engine relay box for the starter motor, fuelpump, fan etc?

    For the fuel pump i just want to mount an inline pump on the fuel line, and i dicoverd the celica has a fuelline back to the fueltank so that is taken care of as well.

    what do you mean with kinetic profiling?
    and it seems i have the gear lever far back on the transmission tunnel not the one that is sticking out "under the dash" so i hope that the J160 gear level lines up somewhere around the same spot as the old one.

    Can i ged rid of the voltage regulator? because in a modern engine it is built within the alternator

    the other issue that leaves me is indeed the conversion of the speedometer. I want to use the original dash because i like it and i have the GT combination meter, that is very rare over here.

    I have the prop shaft of both cars so make a hybrid would not be a problem.
    And it seems that i have a GT axle because i think it is LSD, when i try to drift or do a burnout it is always on both wheels. so i want to keep this as wel.

    That leaves me to just one question: what kind of stand alone ECU is a proper one to use on 6 ccylinder toyota engines? Keep in mind i want to drive the injectors en ignition sequential and i do not want to use a wasted spark/injector setup.

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    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia
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    Default Re: 1G- FE engine and 6 speed gearbox (IS20 lexus) in TA23

    Sorry I was being a smart arse with "kinetic profiling". Simply put, you may need to relieve the trans tunnel with a hammer for a little bit of clearance.

    From what I have seen you do not need the voltage regulator as you noted, the alternator has one inbuilt.

    So you have a mechanical speedo and I'm not sure if the j160 is an electronic sender or mechanical. If mechanical it might hook up directly. If electronic, you will need to determine if the signal originally went direct to an electrnic speedo in the IS200 or if a signal went from the sender to the ECU which then output to the speedo. If a direct signal is required you can rig up some kind of Hall effect sensor. If the signal went to the ECU and then to the speedo and you need an aftermarket ECU, you should be able to use the hall effect/mechanical output anyhow. I do not fully understand the details but their are lots of technical resources in the web.

    The j160/W5X boxes often seem to bolt up directly to the 1st gen celica tailshaft with only minor mods, so yay for your GT setup.

    ECU? that I can't really comment on as I'm running full factory gear. All I can note is that a lot of do it yourself types like the meg squirt but direct sequential ignition I do not know that they do. I'd be inclined to go with whatever offers your factory setup equivalent as a start point.

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    Default Re: 1G- FE engine and 6 speed gearbox (IS20 lexus) in TA23

    That is the point, i can't use the stock ECU nor the dials because the work with a BUS sytem. And the Lexus works with several ECU's. A body ECU that connects and communicate with the engine ECU via multiplex BUS system. An adress/ digital code based connection, not the old 12 v signals.

    But that is the beauty of it, i can use a stand alone ECU, because i have plans for yet another engine in the future, an i think with the right Throttle body setup I can tune the 6 in line with more power an torque compared to stock, since the Lexus is designed as a comfortable car with a smooth engine. After all with a stand alone ECU i can still use the vvti and inlet runner solenoid systems. ECU is even ready to tune with turbo. maybe because this engine was so cheap i want to turbo it in the future

    I will check the gearbox for the speedo signal connection.

  6. #6
    MR 18RG Chief Engine Builder The Witzl's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1G- FE engine and 6 speed gearbox (IS20 lexus) in TA23

    J160 gearbox is 100% electronic.... but the mechanical speedo sender from a W55/7/8 is compatible. I have a W55 sender in my J160 box.
    The output spline on the box is the same as all W5x series boxes (W50, W55/6/8)..... so on my RA23 i'm using the factory tailshaft.

    FYI - i have a beams 3sge + J160 6-speed in my RA23.
    I highly recommend it.
    ...... butt scratcher?!


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    Default Re: 1G- FE engine and 6 speed gearbox (IS20 lexus) in TA23

    I have been told this morning that you can fool the CAN BUS systems to allow the ECU to work stand-alone. CAN networks are simply a series circuit with a High (+) and Low (-). They can start and end anywhere as long as they are complete.

    The guy who I was speaking to simply figured out the CAN pins on a Ford 5.4L 3V system with ECU, BCM and ICC and made it work in an old Shelby Cobra.

    See how you go depending on how complete your shell-less car is.
    RA23 Celica - 18RG, 40mm Webers, 92mm Arias pistons, 11.1:1 C/R, 15x7 SSRs.
    910 Bluebird - FJ20ET, IRS 4.4 LSD, 251kW on E85
    910 Bluebird - RB25 Track Hack

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    Default Re: 1G- FE engine and 6 speed gearbox (IS20 lexus) in TA23

    Quote Originally Posted by Imago View Post
    I have been told this morning that you can fool the CAN BUS systems to allow the ECU to work stand-alone. CAN networks are simply a series circuit with a High (+) and Low (-). They can start and end anywhere as long as they are complete.

    The guy who I was speaking to simply figured out the CAN pins on a Ford 5.4L 3V system with ECU, BCM and ICC and made it work in an old Shelby Cobra.

    See how you go depending on how complete your shell-less car is.
    Yes i know, and i have "some guys" that can tinker with the ecu, But the money it costs me is not worth trying because i think with a normal cable type throttlebody and stand alone ecu i can reach more power out of the stock 1G-fe engine and make proper use of al the systems on the engine like vvti and some kind of T-VIS system a longer/shorter runner intake system. use it for power rather than drive "economic". And after a while i want to make it turbo anyway of throw in a 1jzgte, if i make this engine work the prework for the 1jz is pretty much done. And i can do all with the stand alone ecu.

    That is the masterplan, and in this country when we swap a 4 cylinder engine for a 6 cylinder engine i have to report and do some kind of MOTish test, then on the official papers of the car 4 turns in to 6 . With a 1G-fe in it and it is just 2 liters the chance of passing MOT is easier that swap in a monster engine like the 1jz. When on paper my car is 6cylinder i can "just"put in the 1 jz.

    In the meanwhile i want to drop everybodys jaw here by driving and old rusted celica with a decent engine.

  9. #9
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia
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    Default Re: 1G- FE engine and 6 speed gearbox (IS20 lexus) in TA23

    UK lexus forums have a lot of chat about of the shelf turbo and supercharger systems for 1gfe IS200's. Might be a good place for you to look too.

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