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Thread: 4AGE Stroker kits

  1. #31
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota dnegative's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGE Stroker kits

    Pain in the arse, though I'm sure some headfuck combination of gearbox and shafts works.
    FR is sit the **** wherever you want that works, make mounts and get a tailshaft made lol

  2. #32
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota dnegative's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGE Stroker kits

    Quote Originally Posted by GeeEss View Post
    That's all well & good but at the end of the day I am as my moniker says, a Backyard Mechanic - not an engine builder. . . .

    1/2 you guys are from the Trade & know where to get things done; what aftermarket parts work etc etc.

    Whole different ball-game for tinkering Joes like me; we're at the mercy of whoever's doing the work.
    Good point;
    I couldn't economically own any of my cars if I had to pay someone for everything.

  3. #33
    Toymods Club Member Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: 4AGE Stroker kits

    And just to confuse things even more; found this from an old ToyMods post >

    http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/thr...-good-is-a-7AG

    " Back on topic:

    I've been playing with 4AG and 7AG in EAP today and I'm beginning to think it's not worth the effort for the power I'm looking for. Over 200-220hp or so, it's definately worth a shot, but for around 200hp, the power curve just winds up looking like a 4AG with a narrower rev range. (see attached chart). "

    http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/att...2&d=1159239868

  4. #34
    Olde mechanic Carport Converter oldeskewltoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGE Stroker kits



    Oh my there is now a lot of crap in this thread........ and no I don't want to write a dissertation of all the "wrongs".
    Information is POWER... learn the facts!!

  5. #35
    Toymods Club Member Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: 4AGE Stroker kits

    The process is called entropy OST; everything unravels in the end. . . .

    May as well accelerate the process by adding this;

    No-one's mentioned oil pump upgrades. . .

    http://www.toda-racing.co.jp/en/prod...g-oilpump.html
    Last edited by GeeEss; 25-04-2015 at 08:03 AM.

  6. #36
    loves hi RPMS Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: 4AGE Stroker kits

    Point taken: I want as much as $5000 (spent wisely); will get me. . .
    thats plenty of coin to get a decent 16v to make nice power and be drivable everywhere. your power goals are fine and well within this budget.

    Cooling System: No. . . Apart from putting in a new radiator. What sort of mods you talking about?
    TPS: 20V unit. Didn’t even realise it HAD to be calibrated* - I thought it was PnP?
    *Aside from needing to be mounted 180 Deg out for my installation

    refering to the radiator, and cooling system in general. it may be that the ECU is reading the engine as running too hot and dumping fuel in to cool it down so it doesnt explode.
    but you also have an o2 sensor, so would this not also be picking up the engine running rich? maybe o2 sensor not working? or getting hot and o2 sensor confusing ECU?
    currently i have a huge alloy radiator, oversized water pump pulley and thermo fan which copes with racing on the track just fine. (needs more shrouds but i have more important things to worry about right now).
    yes the TPS needs to be calibrated to the throttles, the throttle openings and to the ECU. previously when my car was first tuned it made 119rwkw, however the throttle cable was loose so while the ECU was seeeing the throttles open at 100% via the TPS, in actual fact the throttles were only opening maybe 70%. cut to shortly after getting tuned and i shortened and sorted the throttle cable to actually open the throttles 100% instead of just 70%. car ran better on part throttle but anything over 50% it would just DUMP ALL THE FUEL straight in as the ECU was now reading 130% throttle instead of its previous 100% (throttles actually open 70%).
    so when i went for a retune this early this year we made sure that 1. the cable was opening the throttles 100%, 2. the throttles themselves were open 100% (visual check), 3. the TPS was reading correctly, 4. the ECU was reading the TPS correctly and showing 100% throttle opening when the throttles were open 100%.
    extra 11rwkw in that 10min check.

    As mentioned; head was ported. I tidied up the match-porting they did on the inlet ports & T3 Manifold myself (the profiles didn't exactly match so I sanded them but with a too-smooth grit which probably hasn't helped matters).
    i read your posts 3 times, i didnt find it. wanted clarification.

    1. The inferior block strength & that 6-bolt flywheel attachment.
    2. That the engine won’t rev like I expect a 4AGE to rev
    Having said that if MRP can get them to spin at 9000 RPM reliably then I guess it comes down to the components, assembly & balancing. . .

    7a block isnt inferior it has the same inherit strength as a 4ag. in an N/A application you wont bust either of them. with forced induction it has happened. 7a crank is just as strong as the 4a crank, agreed 6 bolt flywheel is a PITA but no weaker.

    Nothing. . . 100% OEM
    twice now you've said modified fuel rail, so is it modified or unmodified? or are you using a fuel rail as a vacuum collector?

    Hmm not sure I understand this; why then the mantra that the SP head is inherently superior? AFAIK back in the day; HKS used to make an insert that incorporated an annulus for the BigPort inlets. Why would they have done that if not to increase airspeed into the Ports?

    intake ports and intake flow are better for response and low end torque (as you put it) compared to the bigport. remember the factory had the TVIS which would restrict flow into the engine until you got up passed 4500rpm then it would open to allow more air to flow into the engine to be used. toyota realised it was more complication (and didnt really help with racing) so on the smallport reduce the intake ports to allow for better intake volume control, better air flow. the combustion chamber and valve size didnt change as it didnt need too.

    130 FWKW FROM A 1600 N/A block is certainly impressive but what’s the Torque curve like?
    PS: I do have adjustable Cam gears < T3 > and they've been dialled-in.

    you tell me and lack of 'torque' can be counter acted with shorter gearing.



    I used to have an AE111 BZR; you're right, great engine but I've reservations about that 6speed. It's too fragile for hard use. If I ever got another AE111, and had any intention of tracking it I’d flick the C160 for a C56 (got my C56 + Headers from a BZR front-cut).
    6sp's arent that much weaker, if at all. -GT- has one thats been abused regularly on the race track and its fine behind his silvertop.
    Last edited by xero; 25-04-2015 at 10:28 AM.
    N/A for life...

  7. #37
    Toymods Club Member Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: 4AGE Stroker kits

    Thanks Xero. .

    referring to the radiator, and cooling system in general. it may be that the ECU is reading the engine as running too hot and dumping fuel in to cool it down so it doesn't explode.

    Wouldn't that show on the gauge? Temp reading has always been stable ~ 50% needle deflection (can't remember temp. . . )

    Calibration of TPS. . .

    Of course, my bad. Yes I did calibrate the TPS to closed / open throttle. IIRC it was one of the 1st things I did after installing the ECU.

    02 Sensor. . .

    Yeah; I've wondered about that & did ask the Tuner but he said it was OK. It was a new AE111 20V unit on install but I've read that prolonged rich running can ruin them.

    Might be an idea to remove it and bench test it. . . . Having said that I remember reading & asking about wide-angle sensors and being told it wasn't necessary; that upgrading from a 1-wire to 3-wire narrow band sensor would be enough. . .

    Fuel Rail. . . .

    I am running an unmodified OEM 16V Fuel rail for fuel delivery.

    I am however also using a modified OEM 16V fuel rail as my main Vacuum Collector.

    SP head V BP head. . . .

    OK; but unless I'm missing something that still seems to make a valid case for flicking my BP head for a SP unit. One piece of extravagance I might allow myself is the purchase of a CNC'd unit from MRP.


    GS

  8. #38
    Toymods Events Secretary Too Much Toyota trdee's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGE Stroker kits

    Gee Ess do you have a wideband sensor and gauge on the car? Not much I can do with tuning if you dont have one installed.

    I notice you mention you have an ISCV hooked up. This is good. The tuner may be out of adjustment because the throttle stops have been opened up a bit or some other jiggery pokery. You can set up PID idle control in the adaptronic and all sorts of nice stuff. It works brilliantly on my silvertop. Im sure we can make it work on yours too
    Last edited by trdee; 25-04-2015 at 04:48 PM.
    1988 AW11 9A-GTE - project #1 | 1984 MA61 1JZ-GTE - project #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Rex_Kelway View Post
    .....and the within first laps everything that made the AW11 great hit Rex as if the 'Gods of driving fun' had all Jizzed on his face.....
    Quote Originally Posted by JustenGT8 View Post
    Mono blocs mate....as close to yours as a Ferrari is to a Fiesta

  9. #39
    Toymods Club Member Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: 4AGE Stroker kits

    No I do not < please refer to my prev. post @ 12.14pm today in reply to Xero >.

    I see them for about $60-70 on Ebay < or $150 for Innovate Sensor+ Gauge >.

    Not adverse to getting a WB sensor if it will make a difference but don't know that much about them.

    Just watched a video on Tech Edge WB02; pricey @ $450 for Controller & Display. Much cheaper units on Ebay USA from Innovate etc. . .

    And then I've got to wire it up. . . .

    PS: Do you have any instructions for wiring one up?

  10. #40
    Olde mechanic Carport Converter oldeskewltoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGE Stroker kits

    One HKS stroker crank - IF you are interested........ it is well under $2500..... email me - [email protected]

    Information is POWER... learn the facts!!

  11. #41
    Toymods Club Member Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: 4AGE Stroker kits

    Thanks OST but I think I'll pass. At that price < AUD $3000 > it's at least AUD $1000 more than an MRP crank.

    In any case; I've been contacted by another Toymods member who has put forward a valid case for considering forced induction (Turbo).

    The honest truth is that while I like the idea of a (stroked) N/A screamer a FI motor makes more sense for a car that will be doing 90% street duty. I can get a GZE piston & ring kit from MRP for $500; refresh the bottom end for another $500 & use the head+induction I have. Main $$$ issue would be the transmission. I'm not sure if my rebuilt C56 will cope with the Torque so $2500 worth of tranny / fly & clutch would have to be replaced. Having said that I can't see myself boosting past 12-15 PSI.

  12. #42
    Toymods Events Secretary Too Much Toyota trdee's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGE Stroker kits

    Turbo ftw! That being said I would have a look at your current tune first! It might drive well enough to make you happy just with a better fuel map.

    C5x will do fine at that power level

    You need a wideband sensor man. Without a wideband you are just tuning by feel and looking at sparkplugs lol. The E420d unfortunately doesn't do autotuning, but if you get a wideband sensor and gauge we can refine the tune a lot from the passenger seat nevertheless. I use an innovate MTXL. There are plenty of other options out there though. Wiring is simple. Power and ground and then a serial cable into the ecu.

    Also which tuner have you been going to?
    1988 AW11 9A-GTE - project #1 | 1984 MA61 1JZ-GTE - project #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Rex_Kelway View Post
    .....and the within first laps everything that made the AW11 great hit Rex as if the 'Gods of driving fun' had all Jizzed on his face.....
    Quote Originally Posted by JustenGT8 View Post
    Mono blocs mate....as close to yours as a Ferrari is to a Fiesta

  13. #43
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: 4AGE Stroker kits

    If you want grunt for around town driving, a 1600cc (or 1700cc) 4cyl isn't going to do it in NA form. A really hot "NA screamer" is going to be total peaky pig to drive around town, you really need to go for a drive in a car with a similar motor and you'll notice they're a pig on the street.

    Low boost turbo set up would be ideal, with a really small turbo like a TD04 or a T25 off a CA18det. Give you all the torque you want, and when cruising will get the same if not better fuel economy. Gearbox will be fine.
    SHEPPO..

  14. #44
    how much is Too Much Toyota JustenGT8's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGE Stroker kits

    I do make a convincing case now for the corolla experts to fill some info gaps for you and you're away
    Lily Simpson 6.7.2010
    R.I.P.

  15. #45
    Toymods Club Member Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: 4AGE Stroker kits

    Hmmm; guess I'll need to rename this thread (or start a new one. . .).

    You've opened a can of worms here Justen; hope you guys are prepared for some questions. . .

    Let me start with these;

    1. Assuming my late (7-rib) Bigport block has the boss for the knock sensor already cast into it (but no hole); what is the depth & thread spec of the hole I need to drill for the knock sensor?

    2. What knock Sensor do I use? Early GTZ < P/N: 89615-17010 > ? $250 incl shipping!!! Not bloody cheap are they?

    3. What other bibs & bobs don't I know about that will rack up the $$$? i.e. ToyoDIY also shows a Turbo Pressure Sensor (not used in early GTZ). Will I need one of those?

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