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Thread: Removing / Inspecting valve springs without removing the head - is it possible?

  1. #1
    Bodgepro Mechanic Grease Monkey Ghetto-Spec .:bayka:.'s Avatar
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    Question Removing / Inspecting valve springs without removing the head - is it possible?

    Hi Guys,
    To cut a long story short i will summarise.
    -ae101 4agze developed clacking noise thruout rev range
    -suspected the worst: big-end bearing so dropped sump and found a few very small shards which are currently thought to be pretty insignificant.
    -dont want to remove bearings just yet, would prefer to look at possible head failure: spring, valve seat, or damaged bucket/shim. (as either way, head would have to come off eventually to inspect damage from a spun bearing)

    I have heard it is possible to inspect/remove valve springs/lifters without removing the head. If so, could i please have a run-though of how to do this once the cam shafts are removed? .

    -- my current understanding of this magical process (limited) --
    1. remove cam shafts
    2. lift out bucket/seat things by hand?
    3. remove lifters by hand?
    4. remove spring by wedging a piece of rope (via spark plug cavity) between the associated valve and the piston near top dead centre. The valves in question need to be opening on the current stroke of the engine. crank engine manually so the piston and rope jam the valves shut as they try and open, and alledgedly the valve spring can be removed??

    If not possible, any pointers to look out for when removing the head on a 4agze would be appreciated. I havn't done this before so I really need some help on this guys. Cheers
    Daniel

  2. #2
    she loves me coz im a Conversion King love ke70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Removing / Inspecting valve springs without removing the head - is it possible?

    welll, just by removing the cams you shoudl be able to see a fair amount of whats goin on in there
    but before you remove the cams just check all the valve clearances and make sure its not just a shim worn down too much...
    with the cams off you should be able to inspect for any damage to spings and shims.
    now, even if you get valve springs out with head on, how do you intend on putting it back together?
    but, if you must remove them with the head on, the way i would do it is with piston of cylinder ur working on away from top of the stroke, take a socket 12 or 14 mm i think worked when i did this on my 1g head coz the valve spring compressor wouldnt fit around the head, but i digress, take afore mentioned socket, and sit on the spring retainer thingy, and hit it with a hammer, this makes the collets fall out and releases the valve spring (dont lose the collets!)
    and then you can jus removing everything
    but why you woudnt remove the head is beyond me...
    MY RIDE, 2 Door LHD KE70 sedan with 1G HKS stroker: http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=51760

    Punctuation is the difference between 'I helped my Uncle Jack off his horse' and 'I helped my uncle jack off his horse.'

  3. #3
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic jonra23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Removing / Inspecting valve springs without removing the head - is it possible?

    have you done a compression test, if valve/seat area is bad enough to make a noise there will be very little/no compression on that cylnder.
    Most likely be misfiring out exhaust/intake as well.

    You can change valve springs, etc without pulling head off, harder with a bucket type lifter system.
    If you have an air compressor you can make an adaptor to screw into spark plug hole, but cylnder on bottom dead centre and hook up air line to stop valve dropping. (if valve seal no good will hear air escaping from intake or exhaust)

    You need a valve spring compressor that grabs bottom of spring and presses on retainer then screws up like a puller. (can take picture and email to you if you want)

    jon

  4. #4
    what? Automotive Encyclopaedia EVOSTi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Removing / Inspecting valve springs without removing the head - is it possible?

    mate, you know the most likely cause is the big ends, youre just avoiding the inevidable by looking for other things that you HOPE are the problem. i see it all the time, sooner you bite the bullet sooner you can fix it.

  5. #5
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Removing / Inspecting valve springs without removing the head - is it possible?

    did you grab the big ends and give them a wiggle? if they are well stuffed, they will move..

    why can't you inspect the big ends in the car, if you have the sump off already?

    i've tried the rope trick. it sucks.

    the difference in effort vs getting a new headgasket....is marginal

    pull the big end caps off, have a looksee
    "I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
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    what? Automotive Encyclopaedia EVOSTi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Removing / Inspecting valve springs without removing the head - is it possible?

    yeah you got the sump off, even if you just take one big end cap off at a time and put it on the same way you took it off, check them all and make sure thats not the problem! it will take all of 10 mins, alot better than trying to take the springs out trust me!

  7. #7
    Bodgepro Mechanic Grease Monkey Ghetto-Spec .:bayka:.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Removing / Inspecting valve springs without removing the head - is it possible?

    ok ok, its just that if they are not stuffed i don't have a torque wrench to do caps back up.
    Cheers, i will inspect the bearings then.

    I have heard the big end bearings are actually the con-rod bearings where they attach to crank thru toymods, but a mechanic mate rekons big end bearings are the actual crank bearings that hold crank to block. Which ones should i really be checking?
    And yes ive grabbed the crank shaft and other rods and found no play.

    And yeh, if its not bearings ill pull head off

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    she loves me coz im a Conversion King love ke70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Removing / Inspecting valve springs without removing the head - is it possible?

    lesson one of working cars: you need a torque wrench...go buy one...NOW!
    lesson 2: mechanics are dickheads...bigend are con rod bearings, mains are crank bearings
    MY RIDE, 2 Door LHD KE70 sedan with 1G HKS stroker: http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=51760

    Punctuation is the difference between 'I helped my Uncle Jack off his horse' and 'I helped my uncle jack off his horse.'

  9. #9
    Junior Member Domestic Engineer
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    Default Re: Removing / Inspecting valve springs without removing the head - is it possible?

    if the mechanic doesn't know the big end bearing, then they are in trouble doing their profession...

  10. #10
    Just Another Part Time Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: Removing / Inspecting valve springs without removing the head - is it possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by barned01
    if the mechanic doesn't know the big end bearing, then they are in trouble doing their profession...
    And if you go see this mechanic again stick to talking about the weather and do not let him touch your car unless you have a fat wallet and patience. There are too many mechanics with no fault finding ability out there giving the good ones a bad reputation.

    Find a small jap car importer in your area and ask who they get to do their mecnahical work. They should be the best value for money you can find who is familiar with jap cars.

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    she loves me coz im a Conversion King love ke70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Removing / Inspecting valve springs without removing the head - is it possible?

    p
    f
    f
    f
    t

    do it yourself or dont do it at all
    seriously, trust no one
    MY RIDE, 2 Door LHD KE70 sedan with 1G HKS stroker: http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=51760

    Punctuation is the difference between 'I helped my Uncle Jack off his horse' and 'I helped my uncle jack off his horse.'

  12. #12
    jzx100 fan boy Domestic Engineer slide86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Removing / Inspecting valve springs without removing the head - is it possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by love ke70
    lesson 2: mechanics are dickheads...bigend are con rod bearings, mains are crank bearings
    HEY. not all mechanics are dickheads. i mean, im not a dickhead and im a mechanic. and yes, that guy you talked to has no idea! big end bearing is the rod to crank bearings.

    im sure you can borrow a torque wrench? i would do the job for you if you were in SA. (i have a $500 torque wrench )

    brian is right, take it to a place that is familiar with jap and import cars/engines.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Witzl
    Please visit here, they will have all the answers you need for this "conversion" - www.hot4s.com.au

  13. #13
    Bodgepro Mechanic Grease Monkey Ghetto-Spec .:bayka:.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Removing / Inspecting valve springs without removing the head - is it possible?

    fuckin aye

    Man u guys are quick to rip into the "mechanic" word. The mate of mine is not actually a mechanic, we have just taught ourselves by actually doing shit ourselves instead of paying ppl to fuck it up and charge you for the mistakes they make.

    Bottom end is just something that i have not yet had the 'pleasure' of doing. Evosti has given me some pointers on the bearing removal procedure so will get onto it chop chop.

    Thanks for all the help

  14. #14
    she loves me coz im a Conversion King love ke70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Removing / Inspecting valve springs without removing the head - is it possible?

    bottom end is the easy shit
    just more expensive
    enjoy it man

    apologies to all worthwhile mechanics, its just most arnt worth the tools they use
    MY RIDE, 2 Door LHD KE70 sedan with 1G HKS stroker: http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=51760

    Punctuation is the difference between 'I helped my Uncle Jack off his horse' and 'I helped my uncle jack off his horse.'

  15. #15
    old lurker Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: Removing / Inspecting valve springs without removing the head - is it possible?

    if you pull the bitch apart to fix it and put it back together let us know how much it costs for parts

    as im thinking about freshening up my gze its got a oil leak

    vote +1 for checking big ends im sure they would "go" before the valves
    fear the chicks car

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